Publishers continue to live in the past

[dickon25]

Ralph Sir Edward
If it's cheaper in the UK, I'll buy it there. If it's cheaper in the US, I'll buy it here.

Hmm. That's what I would like too but what would happen about the disparity between 1st and 3rd world economies? If a book cost $9.99 in the US and $3 in, say Togo, either everyone would buy from Togo and the US company would go bust or the price would be worldwide, in which case no-one in Togo would be able to afford it. Sorry, just playing devil's advocate here!!

[DawnFalcon]

Originally Posted by DMcCunney

Suggest to them they shouldn't have exclusive rights, and should in consequence possibly go out of business. Just don't expect a polite response.

No, sure, they can end up in a situation where, like the music industry, it's estimated that a third of the generation who have grown up with their lawsuits will never buy music.

They can adapt their business model now and face risks, or they're definately screwed in the future.

dickon25 - Welcome to the global market!

[Greg Anos]

Originally Posted by dickon25

Ralph Sir Edward
If it's cheaper in the UK, I'll buy it there. If it's cheaper in the US, I'll buy it here.

Hmm. That's what I would like too but what would happen about the disparity between 1st and 3rd world economies? If a book cost $9.99 in the US and $3 in, say Togo, either everyone would buy from Togo and the US company would go bust or the price would be worldwide, in which case no-one in Togo would be able to afford it. Sorry, just playing devil's advocate here!!

Multinational corporations have been sourcing labor in just this manner for years. Like the old saw, "what's good enough for the goose should be good enough for the gander..." Togo would bankrupt the US company...

[dickon25]

Yes, but a global market means a global price - at least for an electronic product. International companies adjust their prices for physical goods according to the ability of the target market to pay. Overseas customers are somewhat restricted from buying by shipping costs, import duties etc etc. So the market largely works. Not the same thing for digital product though. It may not be such an issue in considering the supply of washing machines or VCRs but do we really want to restrict the 3rd world's access to books by setting the price at the cost of a week's wages?

I can't believe I'm almost argueing IN FAVOUR of geographic restrictions??????? Someone help me out here!!

[DMcCunney]

Originally Posted by DawnFalcon

No, sure, they can end up in a situation where, like the music industry, it's estimated that a third of the generation who have grown up with their lawsuits will never buy music.

What seems to be happening is something different. iTunes has transformed the industry.

People don't buy albums. They buy songs. It ratchets up the pressure on the artists and the record companies, because the listener can cherry pick. No reason to but teh whole album if there are three or four songs you want and you don't care about the rest...

But yes, the RIAA has been extraordinarily stupid. I think if you do a detailed analysis, the folks really unhappy about pirated music will be the platinum superstars. They are the ones whose material will be most wanted and most pirated. I know folks not at that level who don't mind if folks rip their albums and share with their friends. The more people who hear their music, the more will come and see them when they play...

They can adapt their business model now and face risks, or they're definitely screwed in the future.

Adapt how?
______
Dennis

[Greg Anos]

Originally Posted by dickon25

Yes, but a global market means a global price - at least for an electronic product. International companies adjust their prices for physical goods according to the ability of the target market to pay. Overseas customers are somewhat restricted from buying by shipping costs, import duties etc etc. So the market largely works. Not the same thing for digital product though. It may not be such an issue in considering the supply of washing machines or VCRs but do we really want to restrict the 3rd world's access to books by setting the price at the cost of a week's wages?

I can't believe I'm almost argueing IN FAVOUR of geographic restrictions??????? Someone help me out here!!

I'm going to be politically incorrect here. A world marketplace implies a world price. Some will be able to afford it and some won't. I don't believe in subsidies of any sort. If you think this hurt's the 3rd world disproportionately, look at what's happened to the skilled corporate labor markets in the last 10 years in the US. (Skilled being thing like accounting, engineering, computer programming, ect. Labor that requires long training and skilled practioners.) The jobs leave the US and go to the 3rd world. They get richer and the US workers get poorer....

[Greg Anos]

Originally Posted by DMcCunney

What seems to be happening is something different. iTunes has transformed the industry.

People don't buy albums. They buy songs. It ratchets up the pressure on the artists and the record companies, because the listener can cherry pick. No reason to but teh whole album if there are three or four songs you want and you don't care about the rest...

But yes, the RIAA has been extraordinarily stupid. I think if you do a detailed analysis, the folks really unhappy about pirated music will be the platinum superstars. They are the ones whose material will be most wanted and most pirated. I know folks not at that level who don't mind if folks rip their albums and share with their friends. The more people who hear their music, the more will come and see them when they play...


Adapt how?
______
Dennis

That one I can answer. By hoss tradin', as we Texans would say. Swap some of your regional exclusivities for other companies exclusivities in order for both companies to get world-wide rights that allow monopoly pricing. Like swapping Baseball cards....

[fugazied]

"Oh you are from that country, you can't buy our product".

On what planet is this a good marketing strategy for a company? They need to have ebook under a separate international license, it's THAT SIMPLE.

[Syniurge]

Originally Posted by anurag

From The BookSeller: http://www.thebookseller.com/news/99...le-launch.html

Same in France. Money-obsessed publishers who have shown continuous hostility to the incoming ebook wave, die quickly, please.

[DawnFalcon]

Originally Posted by DMcCunney

Adapt how?

They may want to ask Baen for tips, for starters...

[DMcCunney]

Originally Posted by dickon25

DMcCunney
.....Let's say I'm a publisher in a European country. I bid for and get the rights to publish an edition in my country of an international best seller written in the US. I damn well do want the exclusive rights to offer the book in my country....

That's a good summary of the current situation but surely it only applies to physical books because the publisher can physically control their availability in any particular country for which they have the rights. As Ralph Sir Edward says, from the consumer of ebooks point of view, it's now no longer appropriate for how we buy and read books (or music). Or should I say 'How we would LIKE to buy' these media.

No, it doesn't just apply to physical books.

One of the common problems in internet related stuff these days is restriction based on location. I used to work for a streaming video provider. We had one case where we had to dive into geolocation, and determine where a viewer was based on IP address, because the client did not have the right to display the video we streamed for them in all locations.

You can determine where the customer is based on their IP address, and while you can get around that with proxy servers, that's not foolproof, since the vendor can also keep a table of common proxy server IPs and block access to them, and in any case, most potential customers will lack the knowledge as well as the incentive to use that workaround.

Hachette caused a bit of a fuss a while back by withdrawing titles from one of the eBook vendors, because they felt the vendor did not have the ability to implement geographical restrictions on sales, and was worried about suits from publishers who had exclusive rights to titles in some areas that sales of Hachette electronic editions from an internet vendor would violate.

The problem is real and not going away. The best solution I see is a revenue sharing deal, where publishers with exclusive rights to titles in a particular area get a cut of ebook sales to customers in that area, even if they aren't technically the publisher of the electronic edition. But that will require cross licensing agreements, and some audit mechanism to insure corect payments are being made.

And there are other aspects of the underlying issues that are still in the process of working themselves out. There was a squabble a while back between Rosetta and Random House, because Rosetta wanted to do electronic editions of books Random House claimed exclusive rights to. The issue was not cut and dried because the original contracts Random House had were written in the days before there were electronic editions, and authors submitted boxed hardcopy manuscripts for editing, copy editing, proofreading, and typesetting, so the question was whether Random House's contracts were applicable.
______
Dennis

[DMcCunney]

Originally Posted by DawnFalcon

They may want to ask Baen for tips, for starters...

Baen does it right, but their example is of limited value for the issues in discussion.
______
Dennis

[DMcCunney]

Originally Posted by Syniurge

Same in France. Money-obsessed publishers who have shown continuous hostility to the incoming ebook wave, die quickly, please.

Say rather survival obsessed publishers. The same book may be offered by half a dozen different publishers to have the rights in their area - in the US, France, Germany, Spain, Italy, Sweden... You buy the book online. Which one gets a cut of the revenue from the sale?

Publishing is in trouble. Smaller imprints are dying. Bigger ones are casting about for ways to reduce costs and increase revenues.

If I were a publisher, I'd be money obsessed too. I want to open my doors again tomorrow and do business, and that's an increasingly challenging task.
______
Dennis

[DMcCunney]

Originally Posted by dickon25

Ralph Sir Edward
If it's cheaper in the UK, I'll buy it there. If it's cheaper in the US, I'll buy it here.

Hmm. That's what I would like too but what would happen about the disparity between 1st and 3rd world economies? If a book cost $9.99 in the US and $3 in, say Togo, either everyone would buy from Togo and the US company would go bust or the price would be worldwide, in which case no-one in Togo would be able to afford it. Sorry, just playing devil's advocate here!!

Won't happen. There will be a minimum price the publisher has to charge, set by the costs of acquiring and publishing the book. That minimum will be more than $3.
______
Dennis

[DawnFalcon]

Originally Posted by DMcCunney

Baen does it right, but their example is of limited value for the issues in discussion.

Sorry, I disagree. Publishers should not be buying books today without worldworld right agreements for online publishing, even if they have to settle for non-exclusive rights.

And they should be going back through the back catalogue and getting assigned online rights whereever possible and not explictly set otherwise, which is someone an academic author friend tells me they are still not doing (indeed, he has recovered the worldwide online rights for his works very cheaply indeed).

For the rest of it, they should be talking about revenue sharing and cooperation for the remainder of their catalogues. They're not, they're talking restrictions and DRM. This is the sound of the music industry's ghost stalking them, and it will reflect on all books, losing buyers.