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Old 10-02-2009, 04:24 PM   #31
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(I don't see the article either.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by CleverClothe View Post
I think the author is wrong about what the industry should do. The ebook industry is doing exactly the right thing as far as targeting their core customer base, heavy readers.
There's nothing wrong with targeting your customer base. But you also have to bring in new customers, because sooner or later your old customers (ahem) die off.

Those new potential customers can (and should) be marketed to in different ways: See what you're missing! It's a better experience now than it was in your parents' time! You already have the tools, now use it to enjoy a book! Learn about your world while you help save it! (That last one was for the environmentalists.)

But these potentials are largely being ignored, and the industry won't last long without them.
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Old 10-02-2009, 04:41 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Jordan View Post
(I don't see the article either.)



There's nothing wrong with targeting your customer base. But you also have to bring in new customers, because sooner or later your old customers (ahem) die off.

Those new potential customers can (and should) be marketed to in different ways: See what you're missing! It's a better experience now than it was in your parents' time! You already have the tools, now use it to enjoy a book! Learn about your world while you help save it! (That last one was for the environmentalists.)

But these potentials are largely being ignored, and the industry won't last long without them.
True. The real issue is dedicated readers ONLY appeal to avid readers. No one else is going to spend money on a device that is only for reading.

So they're marketing it fine. Marketing of e-books can change when there are multi-purpose tablets etc. out there that non-avid readers are buying mainly for other purposed. Then they'll need some different marketing to get that niche to buy more e-books on their tablets they bought mainly for web surfing, or note taking etc. and expand the e-book market beyond avid readers.

Kind of like how someone who isn't big into music wouldn't spend money on an iPod Touch. But they may get an iPhone for the internet, video, apps, etc. etc. and then maybe Apple can sell them some MP3s with the proper marketing since they now own a device that can buy and play them.
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Old 10-02-2009, 05:33 PM   #33
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He's missing the fact that there is a big difference between sitting at your desk reading a book on your computer, and using an ebook reader on the couch, outside on the lawn, sitting on a plane, etc. I can't stand to read books on my computer, but read ebooks all the time on my little Nokia 770.
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Old 10-02-2009, 06:05 PM   #34
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Old 10-02-2009, 06:18 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bill_mchale View Post
I think ultimately, the whole point of the blog excerpt is that there is something intangible about a paper book... at least for the poster. There are people who love books for the content within them; for us, the transition to ebooks is an easy one. Then there are those who love books for being books; for them there is far more to love about books than simply their content. This guy clearly falls into the latter category.

--
Bill
Walter Benjamin called that intangible 'aura' (or 'auratic experience'), referring specifically to pre-gutenberg books, to paintings/sculptures/anything-not-mass-producible; something that was due to a work of art which it had because of its exclusivity. Of course, after reproducible works became the norm (along with repros of paintings etc), people started valuing other aspects about a work than the fact that you could only get a "I-can-see-this-work-only-while-and-when-I'm-here" experience from experiencing the work. (An attempt is still being made by some of the sillier people to collect, say, first editions of works, but to me that's mostly a misguided rear-guard.)
The point being, in any case, that collecting books is different from reading them (this applies to other works of art as well, just not as readily, as it's quite a bit easier to enjoy a painting you own than a book; as well as applying to other things-you-can-collect, though those collections don't quite have the same amount of cachet).. It's a bit harder to say "gee, I own these specific 1432kB of epub file, which means I've got myself a neatly formatted edition of the Pevear&Volokhonsky translation of the Brothers Karamazov, than it is to say the same about the hardcover; mostly because nobody will believe you when you say the two are of equal value. This, I am quite sure, will some day change, though I have to admit I find it hard to be quite as certain/'proud' of the fact I own it, as the ebook edition is quite a bit less tangible than the hardcover I have on my shelf.
Anyway, the point I was hoping to make is that value (or social capital) is something quite dependent on community standards (something Benjamin never quite made explicit when talking about aura), but as such, it will need to be recognized as valuable before it will be accepted as such.
In other words: Be patient
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Old 10-02-2009, 06:42 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JeremyZ View Post
Well, we know that he is missing something. Like many people who "prefer" paper books or who knock eBook readers, it doesn't seem like he has given an honest shot to eBook readers. He has maybe tried one briefly, looked at the price, and moved on, with his mind firmly closed.
Yeah it'd be nice if more of the disdain were coming from people who own and use the devices actively.

The cult side of ebook support and the cult side of ebook rejection are both a little tiring.

"there's no magic!"
"betcha need magic to carry a thousand books in that bag!"
"doesn't matter, the sensuous delight of the printed page is gone!"
"yeah, and to replace it is all my newly-found shelf space!"

Round and round it goes.
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Old 10-02-2009, 06:47 PM   #37
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Folks, I went looking for that page and couldn't find it. I think they took the page down.
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Old 10-02-2009, 06:51 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nate the great View Post
Folks, I went looking for that page and couldn't find it. I think they took the page down.
Maybe by someone who saw the big picture...
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Old 10-02-2009, 07:46 PM   #39
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For me it is not the "printed" matter the hook was in the cover art. As a reader that is what catches my interest and while reading a paper book periodically will stop and look at the cover. The interest has to be there for a person to read something. Currently all the readers currently don't have good cover art due to both lack of color and or not being designed to be viewed in gray scale. Not only that people don't want to pay $400.00 for something to read books on that can only be used for one purpose and that they have to pay as much or sometimes more for a e-book. Of course with printed material they can either share/gift it to someone else or trade it back to a used books store for credit so they can read something else. Readers will not be main stream until they reduce the price, have color displays and books are inexpensive.

Our house used to be a fire hazard due to all the printed material that I used to have until I went digital. I currently read on my Dell Axim x50v. I carry a 4 gb compact flash and a 2 gb sd card full of books. (Both audio and e-book.)
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Old 10-02-2009, 09:46 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Superlucky View Post
The first thing I do everyday is put the New York Times (or sometimes another paper) on my PRS-505. I love getting the news this way. I don't have to pay for and carry a big newspaper around all day or hurt my eyes reading the whole thing on the computer.
Superlucky, would you mind telling me how to put a newspaper on my 505 please? Thank you.
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Old 10-02-2009, 10:16 PM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nate the great View Post
Folks, I went looking for that page and couldn't find it. I think they took the page down.
From their comments:

"The post went up early by accident, it will go live on Monday when the new Books section does as well. I hope you'll come back and comment, I'll try to make sure it's a lively discussion.
Thanks,
Jason Pinter"

Professionals. Bah...
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Old 10-03-2009, 03:23 AM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by magicmonster View Post
For me it is not the "printed" matter the hook was in the cover art. As a reader that is what catches my interest and while reading a paper book periodically will stop and look at the cover. The interest has to be there for a person to read something. Currently all the readers currently don't have good cover art due to both lack of color and or not being designed to be viewed in gray scale. Not only that people don't want to pay $400.00 for something to read books on that can only be used for one purpose and that they have to pay as much or sometimes more for a e-book.
For me, it's the opposite- I like that, with a Reader/liseuse, I can read books without having people peeping at me because I'm reading something with an "outrageous" cover (for their tastes!) or of a genre they despise. It's not the ultimate private experience with reading, but almost.

And I really like to be able to travel light, with a lot of books. If there's a lot of waiting (trains, for example) in 48 hours I can very well go beyond the 5 books limits, and I'm a regular insomniac, so I like to be sure to have something more to read. In fact, last trip (which was my first more or less fully digital) I marvelled at how little luggage I had with me. And what if you don't like one of the books you have brought?
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Old 10-03-2009, 03:23 AM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Jordan View Post
From their comments:

"The post went up early by accident, it will go live on Monday when the new Books section does as well. I hope you'll come back and comment, I'll try to make sure it's a lively discussion.
Thanks,
Jason Pinter"

Professionals. Bah...
It already sparkled a lively discussion here, IMHO
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Old 10-03-2009, 03:25 AM   #44
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Originally Posted by dmaul1114 View Post
True. The real issue is dedicated readers ONLY appeal to avid readers. No one else is going to spend money on a device that is only for reading.
I think you are mistaken that only avid readers would be interested in a dedicated reader, as prices of ebooks and hardware fall, awareness increases and usability/covenience increases then they will become more interesting for more people.

In many ways, its that last point which is the most crucial one and while I love my 505, I think its a been a mistake on sony's part to have not got a wireless connection in all their new models along with a proper store for users outside north america rather than touchscreens that detract from one of the big pluses of e-ink, the clarity of the screen.

A more technically-aware user would appreciate such features, but they could and do easily live without them, however for more casual (often older) users the whole mess of regional restrictions, drm and various bits of software just to get some books on their reader would scare them off. Amazon clearly gets this point and are reaping the benefits in the states as you can see from the age demographics where 70% of kindle owners are 40+, which just aren't figures you would ever expect to see in the early adopter phase of a new technology.

As usual, you have decided to yet again repeat your point about what you think the market actually wants and its true multi-function devices will appeal to plenty of people, but the paper book market is huge and those hardware makers who find ways to tap into that market with products that let people read books as easily as they do now, buy books more easily and regain shelf-space are going to make a lot of money in the process.

Last edited by Crowl; 10-03-2009 at 03:29 AM.
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Old 10-03-2009, 08:15 AM   #45
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Originally Posted by easterncoyote View Post
Superlucky, would you mind telling me how to put a newspaper on my 505 please? Thank you.
Sure. You need to be using calibre instead of the Sony software. Believe me, it's a vast improvement. Download it here.

After you install calibre, hit the "Fetch news" button at the top. That will pop up the "Schedule news download" window. Expand the "+" sign next to the language you want and select your news source. You can then hit "Download now" to fetch the file. You can also set up a time for it to automatically download every day. If you want the NYT, first you have to go to their site and subscribe to the electronic edition (it's free) so that you can put your username and password in calibre. You will only have to do all this stuff once, so don't worry. After it downloads, connect your device, highlight the paper and hit "Send to device". You can also configure calibre to automatically send new news downloads to your device.
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