The Lost Symbol falls into the hands of pirates - Page 3

Superlucky · 09-18-2009, 07:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by corroonb

I think you mean the proletariat (or working-classes), most of the bourgeoisie (middle-classes) would have been able to read in the Victorian era, I presume.

It also depends on what you mean by 'literate'.

1

a : educated, cultured

b : able to read and write

There is a difference.

I meant able to read and write. The same people who would have been proletariat back then are now bourgeoesie (at least in the US). Today there is an entire class of uncultured and half-educated people with the ability to read and access to books. Crappy best-sellers are the price we pay. But, it's better than having large numbers of uncultured and illiterate people.

In Europe in the 1840s, 66% of men could read and 50% of women. I'm sure the numbers were worse in the US. Literacy rates today are close to 100% for developed countries. I think this shift is the reason for the change in literary taste. One can now be uncultured, uneducated and literate. Back then the three were intertwined. Just my opinion.

corroonb · 09-18-2009, 07:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Superlucky

I meant able to read and write. The same people who would have been proletariat back then are now bourgeoesie (at least in the US). Today there is an entire class of uncultured and half-educated people with the ability to read and access to books. Crappy best-sellers are the price we pay. But, it's better than having large numbers of uncultured and illiterate people.

In Europe in the 1840s, 66% of men could read and 50% of women. I'm sure the numbers were worse in the US. Literacy rates today are close to 100% for developed countries. I think this shift is the reason for the change in literary taste. One can now be uncultured, uneducated and literate. Back then the three were intertwined. Just my opinion.

I agree with you but I'm not sure if many others would. Some people are rather uncritical of what they read whether it is Dickens or Brown.

kennyc · 09-18-2009, 09:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shaggy

I'm surprised it took that long.

Yeah, generally the movies are out before they are in the theaters.

mikemc2 · 09-18-2009, 09:12 PM

Speaking of the quality of Dan Brown's work..

Dave_S · 09-19-2009, 02:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ahi

Things we wish to pretend untrue often are.

Was that meant as yet another rhetorical tautology?

Stitchawl · 09-19-2009, 04:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by corroonb

Dan Brown is all about the cash and that's exactly why his books are popular.

If you want to see how far literary standards have fallen in over a hundred years compare Dan Brown to those writers who were popular in the Victorian era. Dickens? Thackeray? Trollope?

I'm going to go out on a limb here, perhaps just to play devil's advocate, but my guess is that there were more than three writers during the Victorian era, many of whom were popular at the time, just not able to stand the test of time.

As for 'all about cash,' that was little Willy Shakespear's sole reason for writing... and folks still read him today!

Rich or poor, it's nice to have money!

Stitchawl

Moejoe · 09-19-2009, 04:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mikemc2

Speaking of the quality of Dan Brown's work..

I liked it so much, I now use part of it as my signature

neilmarr · 09-19-2009, 04:50 AM

If Dan Brown has fallen into the hands of pirates, I hope they make him walk the plank. His other books -- for all their literary failings -- had strong good points that earned their cover price. *The Lost Symbol* has no such saving grace. It's a crying shame to see a chap who was a good, workmanlike tale spinner turn in such a disappointingly poor job. Someone else here in another thread suggested a kind of Chuck Norris factor -- editor's don't mess with Brown. Could well be. Any decent fiction editor could have turned this piece around ... given the freedom to do so. N

Moejoe · 09-19-2009, 05:49 AM

Rumour has it that the top-level sites had a copy of this book up to 4 weeks ago, and this accounts for the near-perfect copies in PDF floating around on the day of release. There was also 'allegedly' a distributed effort to get this into shape before release date. Of course it could all just be hot air, but it's interesting that ebooks are attracting as much attention as cinema and music releases within the world of filesharing.

Crowl · 09-19-2009, 07:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by neilmarr

If Dan Brown has fallen into the hands of pirates, I hope they make him walk the plank. His other books -- for all their literary failings -- had strong good points that earned their cover price. *The Lost Symbol* has no such saving grace. It's a crying shame to see a chap who was a good, workmanlike tale spinner turn in such a disappointingly poor job. Someone else here in another thread suggested a kind of Chuck Norris factor -- editor's don't mess with Brown. Could well be. Any decent fiction editor could have turned this piece around ... given the freedom to do so. N

When you consider how long it is since his last book and the current economic situation, its also not very surprising that the publishers wouldn't want to delay release for more editing, with it coming out now it will probably be a nice boost to this financial quarter and again at xmas, whereas delays would have seen both sales merge into xmas ones.

neilmarr · 09-19-2009, 08:44 AM

Six years, Crowl! And Dan Brown famously claims a rigorous writing routine that starts at 4.00am five days a week. To me, this book reads as though it was written in a rush, at the last minute against a contract deadline. It comes over like one of those NaNoWriMo (write a novel in a month) challenges for developing, wannabe authors. I'm sure editorial intervention was confined to a simple line edit to correct spelling and grammar on the fly. There was certainly no deep editorial input (unless the assigned editor was a dunce) and six years writing space should allow plenty time for that and several revisions. Neil

Crowl · 09-19-2009, 08:56 AM

It might start at 4.00am, but then he finishes at 4.05 and goes to roll around in his money presumably.

Dr. Drib · 09-19-2009, 09:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mikemc2

Speaking of the quality of Dan Brown's work..

From "Author" Dan Brown:

A voice spoke, chillingly close. "Do not move." On his hands and knees, the curator froze, turning his head slowly. Only fifteen feet away, outside the sealed gate, the mountainous silhouette of his attacker stared through the iron bars. He was broad and tall, with ghost-pale skin and thinning white hair. His irises were pink with dark red pupils.

Close, but fifteen feet away.

Dear, sweet God - have mercy on him for he knows not what he does...to the English language.

I think Dan Brown would be an absolute GENIUS if he wrote pulp westerns or noir fiction.

Don

ahi · 09-19-2009, 10:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave_S

Was that meant as yet another rhetorical tautology?

No, it was a pompous show of how clever I am by using words I expect others to consider impressive.

Oh wait... no it wasn't.

- Ahi

neilmarr · 09-19-2009, 10:10 AM

***with ghost-pale skin and thinning white hair. His irises were pink with dark red pupils***

Some pretty detailed 'silhouette', eh. Dr Drib?

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09-18-2009, 09:12 PM	#34
mikemc2 Zealot Posts: 128 Karma: 7878 Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Milwaukee,WI Device: Sony PRS-505,Kindle 3,Nook HD+,iPod Touch,Kindle PW2	Speaking of the quality of Dan Brown's work..

09-19-2009, 04:50 AM	#38
neilmarr neilmarr Posts: 7,215 Karma: 6000059 Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Monaco-Menton, France Device: sony	If Dan Brown has fallen into the hands of pirates, I hope they make him walk the plank. His other books -- for all their literary failings -- had strong good points that earned their cover price. The Lost Symbol has no such saving grace. It's a crying shame to see a chap who was a good, workmanlike tale spinner turn in such a disappointingly poor job. Someone else here in another thread suggested a kind of Chuck Norris factor -- editor's don't mess with Brown. Could well be. Any decent fiction editor could have turned this piece around ... given the freedom to do so. N

09-19-2009, 05:49 AM	#39
Moejoe Banned Posts: 5,100 Karma: 72193 Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: South of the Border Device: Coffin	Rumour has it that the top-level sites had a copy of this book up to 4 weeks ago, and this accounts for the near-perfect copies in PDF floating around on the day of release. There was also 'allegedly' a distributed effort to get this into shape before release date. Of course it could all just be hot air, but it's interesting that ebooks are attracting as much attention as cinema and music releases within the world of filesharing.

09-19-2009, 08:44 AM	#41
neilmarr neilmarr Posts: 7,215 Karma: 6000059 Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Monaco-Menton, France Device: sony	Six years, Crowl! And Dan Brown famously claims a rigorous writing routine that starts at 4.00am five days a week. To me, this book reads as though it was written in a rush, at the last minute against a contract deadline. It comes over like one of those NaNoWriMo (write a novel in a month) challenges for developing, wannabe authors. I'm sure editorial intervention was confined to a simple line edit to correct spelling and grammar on the fly. There was certainly no deep editorial input (unless the assigned editor was a dunce) and six years writing space should allow plenty time for that and several revisions. Neil

09-19-2009, 08:56 AM	#42
Crowl Wizard Posts: 1,340 Karma: 1160346 Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Southport, GB Device: Kindle Voyage, PW Signature edition	It might start at 4.00am, but then he finishes at 4.05 and goes to roll around in his money presumably.

09-19-2009, 10:10 AM	#45
neilmarr neilmarr Posts: 7,215 Karma: 6000059 Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Monaco-Menton, France Device: sony	*with ghost-pale skin and thinning white hair. His irises were pink with dark red pupils* Some pretty detailed 'silhouette', eh. Dr Drib?

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