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Old 08-14-2009, 08:15 PM   #31
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I don't think it's all that surprising. E-book readers aren't for everyone. For one thing, a moderately priced device is still $199, and that would buy quite a few paper books. To the average consumer, it's not worth the price. A recent study (for which I cannot find the link ATM) found that if you read one book a year, you are in the top 1% of people in the USA. I'm sure many of us on this forum are about 5 standard deviations above the mean.

Many of the people I know who got E-readers received them as gifts: "What do you get Dad for Father's Day?" or "So-and-so is going to have surgery and won't be able to lift books, so we're chipping in and getting her an E-reader for the recovery."
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Old 08-14-2009, 08:43 PM   #32
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I'm impressed that 40% of the people surveyed knew what an e-reader was let alone were mildly interested in purchasing one. We've come a long way.

How many people need a digital camera? How many use them all the time? I have two dedicated digital cameras, plus the one in my phone plus a broken one in my PDA. I use one of them once a year on vacation. Do I need them? No.

If you surveyed 1,000 people how many would say they were interested in buying a telescope? Who cares. There's a viable market for them.
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Old 08-14-2009, 10:07 PM   #33
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Hmm, from personal experience I've seen that while People who don't read regularly see the device, they usually don't grasp the utility of the Device.

However people, who read a lot, either for pleasure or for Work, often appreciate how handy such a device could be.

As for the quality of the eInk, while some people love it on first sight, other may compare it to LCD's. In Such cases, lending it to them for a few Hours / Days has often resulted in them getting used to it and loving the experience.

I ran into the First case with My Lecture who loved it on site, while my Mum was a little hesitent in the beginning. Now she can't leave the house without it

I also lent my Gen3 to my Uncle for a few weeks , who has to read a lot for work, and on getting used to it, asked me to get him one.

So while the mass market might appreciate it, heavy readers can especially appriciate the utility of a dedicated device, and the readability of eInk.
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Old 08-15-2009, 12:26 AM   #34
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I'm a bit surprised people think that once most people try an ebook reader device, they'll be hooked on it. Since they're not typically sold in Taiwan and need to be imported, people always are interested in looking over my shoulder at the reader. When I let them try it out however, they often find it maddeningly primitive and inferior for pretty much any of the things they envisioned it could be used for. A close look at the e-ink screen and its pixels reveals to a lot of folks "well crap that's just like a cheap old LCD isn't it?"

A lot of people like the idea of the reader devices, and many people can even see the potential for wide applications, but then the actual experience with the device leaves a sour taste in their mouths. I'm quite positive trying out a PRS-505 has turned a lot of my colleagues and students off enough to avoid ebook reader devices until at least the next generation, and they'll be leery about them even then.

It's not that these people don't read either...they just wouldn't invest in a toy that mimics a book as badly as the reader devices do. One of my colleagues in his 60s appreciated the text resizing, but that was about the most positive comment that came about. No "oooh just like paper" or any of that rot once they looked at it closely. Most of what they knew originally was hype from the Kindle marketing wave in tech magazines, but the real devices are quite a let-down for many.

I think a lot of people who have seen these devices in action don't want them because they are what they are. The ones who like the specialization don't want them because they are pretty embryonic devices that reek of unused potential, and the rest don't want them because they're not versatile enough to justify the prohibitively high cost of admission.

I rather doubt it's a matter of a lack of education or a lack of experience that is causing hesitation. Had I the opportunity to play with one extensively before buying one, I would have not bothered. Unfortunately my reader is a bit too fragile and the corner got a bit deformed by rubbing against some cotton or something (ok it bumped into a plastic pen inside the cotton) and the chrome painted plastic corner by the power switch deformed enough that I can't sell it like new for half what I paid.

Sooo, I'll use it for my disposable indulgent novel reading that doesn't justify ownership of the actual text, and I'll continue to get stares for it and people will continue to be disgusted at its interface and usability, and I'll continue to justify it to them with statements like, "yeah as long as I only use it for novels that I don't have to navigate in, it's not too bad".

Great idea, but I think a surprisingly large number of people have the common sense to wait for something good to actually be released.
I actually had the opposite experience. Everybody asks and is quite surprised how good the text looks. It just seems to be me that you had unrealistically high expectations -- or read material that is not suitable. If you just like to read the text then it is a very positive experience. And for an expat financially it is a no-brainer. You can get very few books here, what you get in HK is totally overpriced, now I can get everything instantly. No more books piling up, no more mailing charges, etc. I saved a lot more than 300$ in a very short time. But even my wife, who is a local, has fought me over it to read some classic books.

No, the current readers are not 100% like a paper book. Most of your points are valid, but I don't feel they are important for the actual reading experience for text in books, only for books with lots of pictures. But they are so much more convenient to read, to store, to buy, or to download old books. Navigation on the Sony is very intuitive and quick. Page turns are not immediate, but faster than on a real book. Holding the reader is much better than holding a paper book. And when I am actually reading I often tend to forget I have an eboook, not a "real" paper book.

Of course, when it comes to news, PDF files, etc -- then reading on the 6 inch screen and navigating is torture.
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Old 08-15-2009, 02:28 AM   #35
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Yep. I think the tech will improve where there are lightweight color tablets & netbooks that are readable like eInk, have great battery life, but that are also fast enough to support multimedia and productivity applications. The current crop is still subpar for reading but I don't think we're that far off with screen tech, power saving tech and improved batteries. (Just looking at what PixelQi has coming supposedly this fall as far as screens is heartening. They're saying daylight readability and 20hrs use. Their next step is even more power saving.) Fix these things and you'd have a device that would be an excellent reader, but that wouldn't be the only thing it could do well. At that point, many people will have these things for work and play, not just the students and other heavy readers. Folks can read their magazines or the occasional book on them as well as web surf, watch movies, play games, etc. People will move away from print to digital because they already have a good device to read on. As you say, most won't buy a device just so they can get digital publications. That takes a hardcore reader unless the device is dirt cheap.

I just don't see stand-alone reading devices being with us long term. They're a stop along the road. I'm glad I have one for now but I doubt I'll have one ten years from now. Maybe not even five. They make sense with the tech as it stands now but the only thing you can count on is change.


I don't actually disagree with anything you said. Though strictly speaking the 3Qi screens coming out this fall should, by themselves, offer a slight improvement in battery life. As Mrs Jepson explains, the real power savings will come when manufacturers optimize the rest of the hardware for it (in a way which sounds similar to how most eInk readers work now):




I'd also like to point out that devices which use Electrophoretics (eInk) need not remain dedicated to one function either. We know that versions of the technology with both color and video capable refresh rate are in development.

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Old 08-15-2009, 03:20 AM   #36
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A lot of it is because the consumer has never seen one demonstrated. Look how many people ran out and bought a Kindle after it was demonstrated on Oprah. I mean, you can tell people about it but it's a different thing to see it in action. I heard of ebook readers but when I was in Miami for Thanksgiving at the end of November 2007, I saw a morning show where a lady was demonstrating cool gifts for Christmas. The Sony PRS-505 was among them which Sony release a few weeks prior and she spent a few minutes talking about how it's a perfect gift for an avid reader in your life and I sat up and took noticed. When I put PRS-505 in Google search engine, this forum came up and that's when I learned about the newly released Kindle. I read a lot for a week since I did not really know anything about ebook readers at that point and then I bought the PRS-505 one week later. Since then 2 friends and 5 co-workers now own ebook readers (PRS-505 or Kindles) and all because I have one, now 2 and they've seen them in action!
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Old 08-15-2009, 05:37 AM   #37
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If you read for hours on end, the e-ink is much easier on the eyes than reading on a computer screen or smartphone. I think once people try one, they will love it...
don't paint with the wide FUD brush...everyone is DIFFERENT and do not presume to tell ME or others what is easier on our eyes or what we want...and for the record I think the Kindle is a POS...and I own one, for about 18months.

Why don't you just add that we must all use eink to "save the children".

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Old 08-15-2009, 05:52 AM   #38
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The article may be true insofar as most people won't need a dedicated eInk reading device, since most people don't read a lot anymore.

For an occasional short story while commuting, the iPhone e.g. is more than adequate. Even reading a novel if you don't spend more than half an hour a day may be easily done on any LCD smartphone, organizer or PDA. Or mobile phone with a larger display.

Which means millions of people around the world could read eBooks right now without the need to buy an additional reading device.
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Old 08-15-2009, 08:00 AM   #39
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The article may be true insofar as most people won't need a dedicated eInk reading device, since most people don't read a lot anymore.

Which means millions of people around the world could read eBooks right now without the need to buy an additional reading device.
True. I read a few novels on my Treo smartphone first, before I bit the bullet, really saw the value, and bought a Kindle. Love it! Now, I've learned enough to fiddle with the formats or DRM, and whats on my Kindle is whats on my Treo, so for those stolen few moments, I can pop it out, find the page and read for a bit.

Off-topic, its the "in my pocket all the time" mode that has me seriously thinking about a 5" reader.
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Old 08-15-2009, 08:26 AM   #40
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I actually had the opposite experience. Everybody asks and is quite surprised how good the text looks. It just seems to be me that you had unrealistically high expectations -- or read material that is not suitable. If you just like to read the text then it is a very positive experience. And for an expat financially it is a no-brainer. You can get very few books here, what you get in HK is totally overpriced, now I can get everything instantly. No more books piling up, no more mailing charges, etc. I saved a lot more than 300$ in a very short time. But even my wife, who is a local, has fought me over it to read some classic books.

No, the current readers are not 100% like a paper book. Most of your points are valid, but I don't feel they are important for the actual reading experience for text in books, only for books with lots of pictures. But they are so much more convenient to read, to store, to buy, or to download old books. Navigation on the Sony is very intuitive and quick. Page turns are not immediate, but faster than on a real book. Holding the reader is much better than holding a paper book. And when I am actually reading I often tend to forget I have an eboook, not a "real" paper book.

Of course, when it comes to news, PDF files, etc -- then reading on the 6 inch screen and navigating is torture.
I've had a lot of people look at my reader and want to try it out. There's nothing that displays well, just less horribly than the stock Dutch Roman. I set my own books up for it and do a pretty good job, considering how futile it is to customize text for the device. I've heard a few people go "wow much nicer than an LCD" but that's just what they read in an article somewhere and thought it sounded like a good polite comment for "exotic" technology, but I normally invite them to look closer and they see pretty much as I do...that e-ink stuff is pretty rubbish under most circumstances. A relatively low density photocopy of a low-quality fax isn't too far off a description. Certainly not just my device either...but yes perhaps I had unrealistic expectations when reading hype about it being comparable to paper.

Navigation through menus is relatively fine, but through books is pathetic. Page turns faster than manually? Sure, if you have only 1 finger, or if you don't do any global navigation (i.e. navigating across the document quickly, skimming the paragraph structures for landmarks; I tend to do this at around 5-10 pages per second when I'm in the local area of the relevant text). I find many situations where I like to cross-reference or flip around to different sections of the book, but then I realize it'd take forever on the reader and instead zip through it on my computer instead, which actually offers some semblance of navigation (not ideal, but at least the ability to move quickly through the book). If I only read linearly without any intratextual navigation, it'd be fine, low quality screen aside.

I'm actually amused that someone else posted that popularity stemming from Oprah's endorsement was actually due to exposure, and not due to fan worship like her book club and everything else about her generally is.

I sound like a hater, but I don't mind my device that much. I try to remember that I'm reading books, sometimes decent ones, and that lets me tolerate the reader. They remain more of a future possibility than a present solution though.
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Old 08-15-2009, 09:05 AM   #41
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don't paint with the wide FUD brush...everyone is DIFFERENT and do not presume to tell ME or others what is easier on our eyes or what we want...and for the record I think the Kindle is a POS...and I own one, for about 18months.

Why don't you just add that we must all use eink to "save the children".

Okay. We must all use eink to save the children. Don't ask me how. It was Brecklundin's idea.
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Old 08-15-2009, 09:48 AM   #42
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Children who go to school nowadays have to carry dozens of kilos of books all day, deforming them with hunchbacks, aging the bones and cartilage in their spine, etc. With eink books children could be happy again and not need back surgery after they finish school like they do now.

If you want the children of the world to be happy and healthy you will vote only for politicians who favor burning all paper books.
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Old 08-15-2009, 10:08 AM   #43
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With eink books children could be happy again
Especially when no one finds out it's actually a comics book they're reading during lessons.

I'd rather go for "use eInk and save the whales, reduce forest fires and lower the income tax in Upper Manhattan", anyway.
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Old 08-15-2009, 08:14 PM   #44
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Okay. We must all use eink to save the children. Don't ask me how. It was Brecklundin's idea.
HAHAHAHA....seee TOLD YA SO!!
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Old 08-15-2009, 08:21 PM   #45
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I don't think it's all that surprising. E-book readers aren't for everyone. For one thing, a moderately priced device is still $199, and that would buy quite a few paper books. To the average consumer, it's not worth the price. A recent study (for which I cannot find the link ATM) found that if you read one book a year, you are in the top 1% of people in the USA. I'm sure many of us on this forum are about 5 standard deviations above the mean.

Many of the people I know who got E-readers received them as gifts: "What do you get Dad for Father's Day?" or "So-and-so is going to have surgery and won't be able to lift books, so we're chipping in and getting her an E-reader for the recovery."
I would agree with this... I have to admit I wasn't reading much before I got my Sony -- however, in the the past year since I got my Sony, I have read more books than the last 10+ years.
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