Baen's Eye of the Storm CD is now available

[Donnageddon]

Originally Posted by NormHart

A woman who;

Withstands torture to eventually lead an escape of military and political prisoners

Shoots, in a duel, the man who caused the death of her lover.

Faces an opponent with samurai swords, survives the experience and goes out to do battle with a superior naval force the same day.

Moves up through a naval ranking system to become a Admiral while overcoming both social and personal issues on multiple worlds.

would, in my opinion, be considered strong.

That was like poetry! Bravo!

[HarryT]

Mr. Ringo used to write good SF. For the last few years, though, he seems to write political manifestos. I really don't want to read books which are, for me at least, promoting deeply unpleasant political agendas.

[Moejoe]

Originally Posted by HarryT

Mr. Ringo used to write good SF. For the last few years, though, he seems to write political manifestos. I really don't want to read books which are, for me at least, promoting deeply unpleasant political agendas.

i must confess I haven't read any of his earlier books, but I do agree wholeheartedly with your opinion on his unpleasant political agenda.

[Wetdogeared]

Originally Posted by NormHart

A woman who;

Withstands torture to eventually lead an escape of military and political prisoners

Shoots, in a duel, the man who caused the death of her lover.

Faces an opponent with samurai swords, survives the experience and goes out to do battle with a superior naval force the same day.

Moves up through a naval ranking system to become a Admiral while overcoming both social and personal issues on multiple worlds.

would, in my opinion, be considered strong.

AKA Admiral of the Fleet and Captain HMS Unconquered Lady Dame Honor Stephanie Alexander-Harrington, Steadholder Harrington, Duchess Harrington, Countess White Haven.

[radius]

Originally Posted by KarateMonkey

He notes that it's very un-PC and loaded with explicit "kinky" sex scenes. I thought then "I'm really not interested in reading the work from someone who thinks a book with a scene where the hero brutalizes an unwilling 15 year old prostitue is just 'kinky' and un-PC".

Well, the problem isn't really with the kinky sex scenes. After all, some readers like that kind of thing. The problem is bad writing.

Luckily for John Ringo, there are many people who find his subject matter exciting and aren't all that discriminating about the actual writing itself... ah well.

[emellaich]

Like any publisher, Baen has a variety of authors with a variety of approaches. Many of their books are in the military vein, and they certainly don't shy away from that approach. If you visit the Baen boards you'll find many a fond discussion of military matters, guns and swords and many have politics to the right of the spectrum.

On the other hand, conisider Eric Flint, one of their most prolific authors, the editor of the free library, and one of the brains behind their DRM-free approach (read his prime palvers in the free library). Eric is a self-avowed communist. His 1632 series of books (still clearly militaristic) feature committees of correspondence and a strong union as power centers behind the scenes. They also feature quite a few strong female characters.

In general, Baen tells the kind of stories that I enjoy. They generally have good folks and bad folks. The good folks are faced with a bunch of challenges, but they find some way to win in the end. This is often achieved through military means.

It is funny, that their strongest female leads (Honor Harrington, Path of the Fury) are written by a guy (Weber) and their strongest male lead (Miles Vorkosigan) is written by a gal (Lois McMaster Bujold). I know Miles is crippled, but he has all the testosterone of any guy out there.

I do agree that if you don't like action you won't find as much of interest in their line.

[TheLongshot]

Originally Posted by emellaich

On the other hand, conisider Eric Flint, one of their most prolific authors, the editor of the free library, and one of the brains behind their DRM-free approach (read his prime palvers in the free library). Eric is a self-avowed communist. His 1632 series of books (still clearly militaristic) feature committees of correspondence and a strong union as power centers behind the scenes. They also feature quite a few strong female characters.

Which is part of the reason my wife loves his books (the other part being that she's interested in that era of history). BTW, I haven't seen anything that describes him as a "communist" other than by people from the other side of the aisle. I certainly haven't seen much evidence of it in his writings.

I'm not a big fan of Ringo. I have read "A Hymn Before Battle", which was decent SF military fiction. The main character of "Beyond The Looking Glass" comes off as a Mary Sue, which kept me from taking the book all too seriously. I did get a copy of "A Deeper Blue" as a freebie, but with the warnings of the Ghost series, I've been hesitant to read it.

[KarateMonkey]

Originally Posted by radius

Well, the problem isn't really with the kinky sex scenes. After all, some readers like that kind of thing. The problem is bad writing.

Luckily for John Ringo, there are many people who find his subject matter exciting and aren't all that discriminating about the actual writing itself... ah well.

My problem with his warning is that I know from the review I posted earlier that the series contains at least a couple graphic scenes with underage and unwilling girls. I don't consider that just kinky or UN-PC, I consider that rape, and the fact that John Ringo doesn't makes me not want to read any of his work.

[HarryT]

Hmmm. Much as I dislike "Ghost" (I find it a deeply unpleasant book), I honestly can't remember the last time I read a crime thriller that explicitly warned me that it contained scenes of graphic murder. Do you really expect warnings about depictions of fictional crimes in books?

[fjtorres]

Originally Posted by TheLongshot

I'm not a big fan of Ringo. I have read "A Hymn Before Battle", which was decent SF military fiction. The main character of "Beyond The Looking Glass" comes off as a Mary Sue, which kept me from taking the book all too seriously. I did get a copy of "A Deeper Blue" as a freebie, but with the warnings of the Ghost series, I've been hesitant to read it.

I'll admit to having read Ringo.
And the thing is, like a lot of writers, there is Ringo and there is Ringo.
The Ringo of the Posleen series is not the ringo of the Looking Glass Sequels.

Looking Glass itself (Vol 1) I took to be essentially "screwball space opera", a right-at-the-top, no holds barred romp. Wasn't perfect but still a fun enough read. (It was clearly intended as a stand-alone and the last section is a clear last minute addtition to open up the door for Vorpal Blade.)

The sequels, now, got generally more and more serious and the characters less outrageous, up to Claws that Catch, where they went out of the way to amp up the silliness for a good chunk.

No kinky sex. No political proselitizing outside of some rather fun digs at that french (but lets face it; making fun of the french *is* fun, cheap shots or not) and, in fact, the first volume gets a few digs in at the Bush brothers.

If you don't like action SF, fine.
Don't like Space Opera, ditto.

But there is more to Baen than that; just troll the free library for Keith Laumer's Retief, Manly Wade Wellman's John the Balladeer, Tom Goodwin's Cold Equations. They're going out of their way to keep a lot of great writers of the 50's and 60's visible. Hardly a one-note-crew.

If you haven't read Bujold, you're missing great stuff. Anybody who's passed on A CIVIL CAMPAIGN is depriving themselves of one of the greater joys in life; a Science Fiction comedy of manners, folks! Jane Austen would be a fan.

(As for strong women... Brrr! Cordelia Naismith. Team Koudelka. Ekaterin Vorsoisson. There is strength and then there is strength of character. Bujold does the latter.)

Let's not pigeonhole writers or publishers, okay?

[KarateMonkey]

To my mind an explicit sex scene between consenting adults is a separate thing from a scene involving brutalizing underage girls.

The fact that he only included a warning for the former but not the later and the way the warning was written says to me that in his mind they are the same thing. In my mind that just clings like a greasy film to anything with his name on it. Maybe I would have liked some of his other work if I had encountered it at a different time, but now I don't think I could read it without thinking, "This guy thinks raping a 15 year old is kinky."

I'm not saying I need my sensibilities protected from anything shocking, just that the warning he did go to the trouble of giving left a bad taste in my mouth.

[KarateMonkey]

Originally Posted by emellaich

On the other hand, conisider Eric Flint, one of their most prolific authors, the editor of the free library, and one of the brains behind their DRM-free approach (read his prime palvers in the free library). Eric is a self-avowed communist. His 1632 series of books (still clearly militaristic) feature committees of correspondence and a strong union as power centers behind the scenes. They also feature quite a few strong female characters.

I am totally moving that series up in my to be read list.

[TheLongshot]

I wouldn't let the subject matter of "Ghost" disuade people from his books. The Ghost series seems to be its own beast.

Originally Posted by fjtorres

Looking Glass itself (Vol 1) I took to be essentially "screwball space opera", a right-at-the-top, no holds barred romp. Wasn't perfect but still a fun enough read. (It was clearly intended as a stand-alone and the last section is a clear last minute addtition to open up the door for Vorpal Blade.)

Yeah, reality kinda goes out the window, so to speak. It felt a bit like Independence Day, but not nearly so arch.

No kinky sex. No political proselitizing outside of some rather fun digs at that french (but lets face it; making fun of the french *is* fun, cheap shots or not) and, in fact, the first volume gets a few digs in at the Bush brothers.

Well, he does get some digs in the general liberal-ness of most scientists. It is a no-brainer that Ringo is a conservative, but that usually comes with the territory with military fiction as well.

But there is more to Baen than that; just troll the free library for Keith Laumer's Retief, Manly Wade Wellman's John the Balladeer, Tom Goodwin's Cold Equations. They're going out of their way to keep a lot of great writers of the 50's and 60's visible. Hardly a one-note-crew.

Yes, Baen has been good at getting older catalog titles out there, including some of Heinlein's JA stuff (Farmer In The Sky and The Rolling Stones come to mind.).

I highly recommend Wen Spenser. "Tinker" and "Wolf Who Rules" is probably some of the better urban fantasy I've read. Sarah Hoyt's "Draw One In The Dark" was also pretty good.

If you haven't read Bujold, you're missing great stuff. Anybody who's passed on A CIVIL CAMPAIGN is depriving themselves of one of the greater joys in life; a Science Fiction comedy of manners, folks! Jane Austen would be a fan.

(As for strong women... Brrr! Cordelia Naismith. Team Koudelka. Ekaterin Vorsoisson. There is strength and then there is strength of character. Bujold does the latter.)

I haven't read a bad Bujold book yet, tho I haven't read her "Sharing Knife" series yet.

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by TheLongshot

I wouldn't let the subject matter of "Ghost" disuade people from his books. The Ghost series seems to be its own beast.

Unfortunately, it's more than just "Ghost". Have you tried to read "The Last Centurion"? It reads more like a political manifesto than a novel.

I loved Mr. Ringo's earlier stuff, but I've gone right off him recently, I regret to say.

[derrell]

Originally Posted by TheLongshot

Which is part of the reason my wife loves his books (the other part being that she's interested in that era of history). BTW, I haven't seen anything that describes him as a "communist" other than by people from the other side of the aisle. I certainly haven't seen much evidence of it in his writings.

Actually its a self avowed socialist. From his biography at his website.

By the summer of 1971, I decided to leave the academic world. The reason, in a nutshell, was that after years of being politically active (mainly in the civil rights movement and the anti-Vietnam war movement) I had become a socialist. And the truth is that I didn’t have much use — still don’t — for academic socialists. It seemed to me then — still does — that a socialist political activist belongs on the shop floors of American industry and in its union halls, not in the ivory tower.

I enjoyed the 1632 series up to Ram Rebellion which was just really goofy. Quit on that one guess I should go back and see what else is going on with the series but haven't done it yet. I also enjoyed The Belisarius Saga with David Drake.