Seriously thoughtful US/Europe Cultural Divide -- Musings

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by Ralph Sir Edward

Whereas government sponsered education has always been a bedrock of the American culture. The quickest way to learn of the new things in America was to read about them, so reading and writing were deemed necessary "game rules". For an example, read Mark Twain's Tom Sawyer written in the early 1870's, about a period in the 1840's, particularly the schoolhouse scenes.

Yes, that's definitely an area in which the US was a leader.

[Greg Anos]

Originally Posted by HarryT

You do your country an unjustice; there are some excellent US soccer players, but they almost all play in Europe because of the lack of a serious professional game in the US. Your national side is pretty good, too.

I don't follow Football, like the vast majority of Americans, so the injustice. I merely point out the lack of a professional game in the US is a elequent example of populace's lack of interest in the game. The cultural question is Why?

[HarryT]

Perhaps we'd better take the soccer debate to a separate thread?

[Greg Anos]

Originally Posted by pilotbob

Well, that's easy. Because there is no place to put in commercials. Soccer is a timed game where the clock doesn't stop. So, where do you put in the TV ads? It just isn't commercially valid. Even the US Soccer League or whatever it is airs the games on minor cable channels that you have to pay to see.

Football (american) and Baseball have tons off opportunities to take time out for an add. A game with 4 15 minutes quarters takes 3 hours to "play" which gives them a captive audience for ads. This is also why Hockey here is such a minor TV covered sport also. Once again, a timed game with very few breaks or clock stoppages.

BOb

But American football and baseball were popular long before there was television. Why didn't Footbal (soccer) become popular during that time frame?

[Greg Anos]

Originally Posted by HarryT

Perhaps we'd better take the soccer debate to a separate thread?

I not trying to discuss football per se, I'm just trying to point out that games that are popular in America have to have conclusions, win or lose. This goes back to the cultural need for acheivement. In Europe, the need for acheivement is not the driving force (culturally) that it is in America.

[Moejoe]

Originally Posted by Ralph Sir Edward

But American football and baseball were popular long before there was television. Why didn't Footbal (soccer) become popular during that time frame?

Wow, that's a hard question to answer. Could it be that American's, seeing themselves as their 'own' people wanted a sport that was culturally theirs? A sport they could identify as American, even when those sports had their roots in Rugby and Rounders?

[Sparrow]

Originally Posted by Ralph Sir Edward

I not trying to discuss football per se, I'm just trying to point out that games that are popular in America have to have conclusions, win or lose. This goes back to the cultural need for acheivement. In Europe, the need for acheivement is not the driving force (culturally) that it is in America.

This seems to tie in with research into humour that found:
"People from The Republic of Ireland, the UK, Australia and New Zealand expressed a strong preference for jokes involving word plays ....
Americans and Canadians much preferred gags where there was a sense of superiority ...
many European countries, such as France, Denmark and Belgium, liked jokes that were somewhat surreal..."

[Greg Anos]

Originally Posted by Moejoe

Wow, that's a hard question to answer. Could it be that American's, seeing themselves as their 'own' people wanted a sport that was culturally theirs? A sport they could identify as American, even when those sports had their roots in Rugby and Rounders?

But why those games and not others? I think because the "fit" better into the American cultural needs.

Off sports, I'll quote Ben Franklin about the culture of America in his day (mid to late 1700's) " In America, it doesn't matter who you are, but what you can do." Acheivement versus position. The attitude that you can be a bum or Bill Gates, or anything in between, it's up to you. In practice this is not fully true, but that's the cultural ethos. I suspect that is not the European cultural world view...

[Moejoe]

Originally Posted by Ralph Sir Edward

But why thise games and not others? I think because the "fit" better into the American cultural needs.

Off sports, I'll quote Ben Franklin about the culture of America in his day (mid to late 1700's) " In America, it doesn't matter who you are, but what you can do." Acheivement versus position. The attitude that you can be a bum or Bill Gates, or anything in between, it's up to you. In practice this is not fully true, but that's the cultural ethos. I suspect that is not the European cultural world view...

I think we have a much more "Cut down the tall poppies" mentality. Although I'm thinking that phrase is much more of an Australian saying than a UK one.

[HarryT]

Definitely an Australian saying, that one!

[Greg Anos]

I didn't want to say that. But I agree from my observations.

So you take an acheivement culture person and suggest that his culture needs a "haircut", and guess what? He starts defending his culture. Sound familiar? Much of the heated threads have been based on this cultural difference. You don't get an acheivement culture to yield to the wishes of a non-acheivement culture just by requesting it. You have to provide a reason for that culture to acheive in a different direction. Otherwise, all you're going to have is conflict. Acheivement cultures pay no attention to the status of the person making the requests, there is no respect for "social lock-in". And vice versa.

[Sparrow]

Originally Posted by Ralph Sir Edward

So you take an acheivement culture person and suggest that his culture needs a "haircut", and guess what? He starts defending his culture. Sound familiar? Much of the heated threads have been based on this cultural difference. You don't get an acheivement culture to yield to the wishes of a non-acheivement culture just by requesting it. You have to provide a reason for that culture to acheive in a different direction. Otherwise, all you're going to have is conflict. Acheivement cultures pay no attention to the status of the person making the requests, there is no respect for "social lock-in". And vice versa.

But how do you measure achievement?
It seems that material possessions are the indicator of success in the US; or is that unfair?

I think in Europe we see many ways to achieve. It isn't just about winning or losing.

[DixieGal]

Originally Posted by Nate the great

The purpose of government is to be a government, not a nanny.

That is absolutely perfect, and may I use it in my signature line?

Medical care in the US is a combination of public and private funding, with HMO's tossed in for the sake of confusion. Private practice physicians must operate their businesses and practice medicine. For the most part, they see patients who either pay out-of-pocket or bill the patient's insurance.

Large medical centers, such as where I work, receive funding from out-of-pocket, private insurance, and mostly govt monies. The majority of the money for my particular division comes from state and federal funding. Each year, the state allocates (fewer and fewer) dollars specifically to my medical center to cover many costs.

Our massive medical research is mostly funded by the federal govt via VERY competitive grant applications, with plenty of money from pharmaceutical companies tossed into the pile from our med testing research. People who volunteer to become research subjects receive free medical care related to the illness that the medicine is being tested for, and quite often the pharm company pays the subjects.

Pay attention now, this is what I've been getting to: Those pts who are poor and don't have insurance are covered under a govt program called Medicaid. Medicaid only pays us a fraction of the cost of the medical care, and we are forbidden to try to collect the remainder. This is a contractually binding agreement. We take a large loss on these pts versus pts who have insurance. Nobody makes up the difference. It is mutually agreed upon by us and Medicaid that we will take whatever pittance they give us and be satisfied. We understand that we can not count on our majority population of poor urban pts to support us and that the excellent care they receive from us will be free to them.

However, the working lower middle class often fall through the cracks. They are often working jobs that pay too much to qualify for Medicaid, but not enough to have medical insurance. That remains an unsolved problem.

What differentiates the US med care system from NHS is competitiveness. The better the care that you deliver, the more your reputation grows, and the more research dollars you are awarded. The more research experience you gain, the more pharmaceutical money you are offered. Competition drives the medical field as much as it drive retail. Sure, you can call us greedy, but that drive to acquire the most has driven medicine to the heights it now occupies.

I believe our American way of wanting the mostest biggest flashiest of everything is what made us rich. Why would we want to change that? There's no reason to feel guilty, and I am proud of the fact that anyone who wants to compete be rich in the US can be. Like RSE said, it's a big country, and if you fail, then it's easy to move and start fresh again.

[Nate the great]

Originally Posted by Nate the great

The purpose of government is to be a government, not a nanny.

Originally Posted by DixieGal

That is absolutely perfect, and may I use it in my signature line?

Certainly.

[pilotbob]

Originally Posted by Ralph Sir Edward

" In America, it doesn't matter who you are, but what you can do." Acheivement versus position.

If only that were true. Celebrity here also seems to be worshiped. So many people "wanna be" Paris Hilton. What has she achieved? Certainly she was lucky by birth... but that isn't an achievement. Yet so many people seem to value here and follow here every move.

Also, as someone else many in the US equate popularity and riches with achievement. It really is a "beauty is in the eye of the beholder" type issue here isn't it?

BOb