<div> instead of <p>?

[Moonbase59]

Originally Posted by Slevin#7

For iOS the current version is 5.15.5 592939 and over a year old. So maybe they have updated the Android app?

That may well be the case.

Could you try the two EPUBs @RndJrg and I uploaded on iOS, maybe share a screenshot? Apple has been known to sometimes severely restrict iOS/macOS developers, and Safari’s WebKit does have some deficiencies.

Then again, @RbnJrg was speaking of the Android version, so I wonder. Maybe there is something else in the CSS that makes it behave differently, or some setting in the app?

At least with KOReader, I always have to remember to switch "Style Tweaks" off to see an EPUB as it was intended by the publisher. App settings can modify an EPUB’s appearance in unexpected ways.

[ElMiko]

@Terisa - I can't tell if this is a joke! If so, it elicited a chuckle. If not, well, it still elicited a chuckle. Yes, I supposed that having a program automatically generate an epub IS an easier way to produce a document (any document... quality be damned) than styling it yourself. But I got the impression that Sarmat was actually arguing for an advantage in favor of hand-coded <div>s over <p>s...

[Terisa de morgan]

Originally Posted by ElMiko

@Terisa - I can't tell if this is a joke! If so, it elicited a chuckle. If not, well, it still elicited a chuckle. Yes, I supposed that having a program automatically generate an epub IS an easier way to produce a document (any document... quality be damned) than styling it yourself. But I got the impression that Sarmat was actually arguing for an advantage in favor of hand-coded <div>s over <p>s...

Sadly, not a joke but a mindset. And now I remember that I've seen ereaders at Android/iOs that honor div styles but not p (don't ask me why, it was long time ago, but I can tell you a publisher that, currently, only uses div, not p).

[Moonbase59]

…and even a piece of software can be programmed to generate meaningful output. ;-)

For instance, I write almost everything in Markdown, and very rarely include HTML/XHML, except for the occasional

<hr />

for a scene change or thematic break, or maybe

<span xml:lang="fr">C’est la vie !</span>

to nudge the reader software to use the correct hyphenation or otherwise differentiate foreign-language text (like maybe italicize it).

The "piece of software" still generates correct results, i.e. headings, paragraphs and such.

[jackie_w]

Originally Posted by RbnJrg

Sorry, my mystake. I was referring to the Android version of PB. It's possible that the physical device has a different rendering engine, but the app has the bug I described.

I remember having problems last year with Android PB when "suddenly" my previously nicely rendered simulated letters and newspaper extracts etc no longer had left/right indented margins and scenebreak fleurons were missing their top/bottom margins. I usually use KOreader on Android these days so I had no idea when PB had actually started to misbehave.

The solution for me turned out to be quite simple. All I had to do was go to Settings > Page > Page margins and make sure it was set to Author. I'm embarrassed at how long it took me to make this "simple" discovery

[Moonbase59]

Originally Posted by jackie_w

The solution for me turned out to be quite simple. All I had to do was go to Settings > Page > Page margins and make sure it was set to Author. I'm embarrassed at how long it took me to make this "simple" discovery

Thanks, that is a valuable hint! Let me add this menu is only available when a book is actually open in the Pocketbook App.

It’s real nice that you can modify so many things in KOReader and Pocketbook, but the plethora of possible settings hidden in various submenus can be confusing.

[Slevin#7]

Originally Posted by Moonbase59

That may well be the case.Could you try the two EPUBs @RndJrg and I uploaded on iOS, maybe share a screenshot?

Screenshots taken with PocketBook iOS 5.15.5 592939

Moonbase


RbnJrg

Originally Posted by jackie_w

The solution for me turned out to be quite simple. All I had to do was go to Settings > Page > Page margins and make sure it was set to Author. I'm embarrassed at how long it took me to make this "simple" discovery

Yeah, that would be great if only I could find that special configuration. Can you describe maybe in depth where to search for? At least in my iOS app I can't find this setting

Originally Posted by Moonbase59

Thanks, that is a valuable hint! Let me add this menu is only available when a book is actually open in the Pocketbook App.

Could you please tell me where to click or to search? These are the possible configurations I have access:

Main settings


Settings with opened book

[RbnJrg]

Originally Posted by jackie_w

The solution for me turned out to be quite simple. All I had to do was go to Settings > Page > Page margins and make sure it was set to Author. I'm embarrassed at how long it took me to make this "simple" discovery

Thanks, that is the key! By setting page margins to Author fixes the issue.

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by ElMiko

@JSWolf - Yeah, I'd be curious to know who is the criminal responsible for this, too. Frankly, the books I've seen with this not only are guilty of the div/span coding, but also the css is usually ridiculously bloated. Like, multiple classes that are different from eachother only in the most marginal sense—think "margin: 0 1px;" vs "margin 0 2px;" or "font-size: 1.0em;" vs "font-size: 1.00012583em". In retrospect, those ridiculous decimals should have been a dead giveaway that it was a program, not a person. (although the designer presumably WAS a person, and deserves a jail sentence)

A font size like you've specified is usually from InDesign. You sometimes numbers with fairly small decimals.

As for the CSS being bloated, it's because these publishers just keep adding to the style sheet. It's very easy to remove any unused classes. But they won't do that. I do that and sometimes I see over 100 unused classes. It's ridiculous.

I think the publishers need staff who can make sure the eBooks are good to go both for the code and the formatting.

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by RbnJrg

PB behaves extremely unusual regarding specific margins applied to a <p> tag. It doesn't even respect them if I declare a style inline. For example, <p style="margin: 2em 0">...</p> isn't honored if, for example, I have declared this in my stylesheet:

p {
  margin: 0;
  ...
}

Regarding to have:

<div style="margin: 2em 0">  /* This is honored */
    <p style="margin: 1.5em 0">This is my test</p> /* This isn't */
</div>

but for only one line, you never will write something so. Instead you'll write:

<div style="margin: 3.5em 0">
    This is my test
</div>

OTOH, if you have:

<div class="bigMargin">
    <p>This is my test</p>
    <p>This is my test</p>
    <p>This is my test</p>
</div>

and

.bigMargin {
   margin: 2em 0;  /* PB will honor this */
}

.bigMargin p {
   margin: 0.5em 0; /*PB won't honor this */
}

The opposite also occurs (that is, I have big margins and I want smaller ones for a particular <p>). The best way to understand what happens with PB is to install the app and test different particular margins for the <p> tag.

Will PB respect the margins in <p> if you do something like...

p {
  margin-top: 2em;
  margin-right: 0;
  margin-bottom: 2em.
  margin-left: 0;
}

I know the nook had an issue with a margin shorthand.

[Quoth]

Pocketbook app on Android does respect <p> settings if it's configured to use them. My ebooks look the same on Pocketbook and on the Kobo, and more or less similar as azw3 on Kindle Pw3. The K3 and Pw3 (with azw3/Kf8) sometimes scale images rather differently, but oddly the K3 is more like the Kobo or PB app on Android. Some Android apps are useless.

I'll never use over-ride features in a apps that have them as it bites later. I only edit the epub or the original source.

[RbnJrg]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

Will PB respect the margins in <p> if you do something like...

p {
  margin-top: 2em;
  margin-right: 0;
  margin-bottom: 2em.
  margin-left: 0;
}

I know the nook had an issue with a margin shorthand.

By enabling author-based margins (a hidden feature deep within the application's settings), PB honors the margins specified in the style sheet.

However, if the user happens to modify the page margins using the easily accessible command in PB's main menu, the program not only modifies the page margins, but also all the margins, including paragraph margins. Thus, the specific values specified in the style sheet are no longer honored.

The only way for these margins to remain unchanged even when the user changes the page margins is to use <div> tags instead of <p> in paragraphs where a special margin is required. Terrible handling of margins by PB.

[RbnJrg]

Originally Posted by Moonbase59

Thanks, that is a valuable hint! Let me add this menu is only available when a book is actually open in the Pocketbook App.

It’s real nice that you can modify so many things in KOReader and Pocketbook, but the plethora of possible settings hidden in various submenus can be confusing.

Try to change the page margins with the PB's "Text" menu. You'll see that the app not only changes the page margins but also the paragraph margins. PB's handling of margins is terrifying.

[Moonbase59]

I don’t know what’s going on here, I give up. Works on mine:

[RbnJrg]

Originally Posted by Moonbase59

I don’t know what’s going on here, I give up. Works on mine:

Incredible! What Android version are you using? I have Android 14.