EPUB 3.3 BECOMES A W3C RECOMMENDATION

[Quoth]

Originally Posted by j.p.s

So you are saying the poor implementation was a larger factor in the ugly results than any deficiency in EPUB 2?

yes

Originally Posted by j.p.s

Does EPUB 3 improve 2 columns over using EPUB 2?

I suspect it depends on the content of the columns. I really don't know.

My aim in eBook production is to have the Wordprocessor styles do everything (they ideally map 1:1 to CSS) and also map to <Hx, <p <div <image and of course links/anchors, so that no actual edit of the epub is needed.

Occam wrote something like "Entities must not be multiplied beyond necessity" (he didn't actually write even the Latin of that, but had the idea of it).

Of course purists will claim "figure" and "section" are semantically better than <p or <div combos.

Obviously epub2 missed stuff that could have easily been in it then and epub3 adds stuff that needed added. But real ebook versions of paper only need a subset. The HTML & CSS is a means to an end. The W3C should absolutely never have been involved in ebook specs.

There should be two versions of epub3.3, one a subset for real ebooks and ereaders and apps that only do ebooks, not multimedia. It's too big.

Can you yet have LTR text and RTL text in the same paragraph/line without two columns (or divs & floats simulating two columns)? You could even on DOS in 1989.

[ZodWallop]

Originally Posted by j.p.s

OK, but I think there was a strong implication in the question that it was asked whether EPUB 3 added anything that made having 2 columns easier, cleaner implementation or provide better reading experience.

Right. I thought the book was a mess because the formatting was inherently something that ePub 2 couldn't handle. But it sounds like, no, the book was just release in a very poorly formatted state by the publisher.

So you are saying the poor implementation was a larger factor in the ugly results than any deficiency in EPUB 2? Does EPUB 3 improve 2 columns over using EPUB 2?

I really am surprised. I know that the big publishers have released messy books before. But a big book from one of the most popular authors in the world, you'd figure there'd be some QC there.

[Quoth]

The worst formatted ebooks I buy are from a house full of aquatic birds.

[graycyn]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

ePub 3 introduced some code that was not needed that makes it no as compatible with older software as it should be. Things like <figure> when <div works perfectly well. hv/vw when % works perfectly well. And others.

Presuming the older software understands CSS, then <figure> and other HTML5 block elements work fine if you style them with display: block;.

/* HTML5 block tags defined for legacy reading systems. */
article,aside,figcaption,figure,footer,header,main,nav,section {
  display: block;
}

You can then add whatever additional styling you might need as desired. Like making <figcaption> a smaller font size, or italicized, or adding margins, etc...

[graycyn]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

The problem with this eBook is that the way it's setup is that these chats are full screen graphics. The text of these graphics is there in the eBook, but set not to display.

I seem to recall that when I read it, I got BOTH the graphics and the text, which was highly annoying!

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by graycyn

I seem to recall that when I read it, I got BOTH the graphics and the text, which was highly annoying!

Whatever program you used to read the eBook is broken. It doesn't respect the code to not display something.

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by graycyn

Presuming the older software understands CSS, then <figure> and other HTML5 block elements work fine if you style them with display: block;.

/* HTML5 block tags defined for legacy reading systems. */
article,aside,figcaption,figure,footer,header,main,nav,section {
  display: block;
}

You can then add whatever additional styling you might need as desired. Like making <figcaption> a smaller font size, or italicized, or adding margins, etc...

That is incorrect. ADE 2.0.1 will not work with <figure> no matter what you do with it in CSS. It needs to be a <div>

All of those "commands" won't work. That's the problem. ePub 3 could be more backwards compatible with ePub 2 without removing any of the functionality.

So no, they won't work with legacy reading system that are not based on an up-to-date enough webkit.

[Hitch]

Originally Posted by Quoth

I think there should be a fork. (snippage for length)

I want ebooks that can replicate any print document. I don't want "Harry Potter" style ebooks, or ebooks aspiring to be merely paginated versions of multimedia interactive websites, though a web browser that paginates, has jump to page and TOC like an ebook would be an improvement over the scrolling. Scrolls are so 2000 years ago.

Sorry? What "Harry Potter" style eBooks? I have the original HP eBooks, the Pottermore versions and they are...perfectly normal and usable. What version of those ebooks are you talking about, Quoth?

Hitch

[John F]

Originally Posted by Hitch

Sorry? What "Harry Potter" style eBooks? I have the original HP eBooks, the Pottermore versions and they are...perfectly normal and usable. What version of those ebooks are you talking about, Quoth?

Hitch

I had to think about this,but I'm guessing the animated newspapers from the movies?

[Hitch]

Originally Posted by John F

I had to think about this,but I'm guessing the animated newspapers from the movies?

Uh...you mean the Daily Prophet? I guess maybe that's what Quoth meant.

I don't have some significant objection to ePUB3.3 or 3.0 or 3. whatever; I am not wild about multimedia, I admit it. But the two are not inextricable and the multimedia doesn't supplant/replace the usable bits.

And in the past decade, let's face it, all the doom and gloom about the Daily Prophet ebooks has pretty much come to naught.

Come on, admit it, boys, we all, all remember the "Immersedition" disaster, right? The closest, thus far, to the Prophet? It burst upon the scene with a fanfare of trumpets and then died a terrible, horrible death. (I still have that thing, FWIW.)

I honestly only get maybe...IDK, 2-3 total requests for embedding a link to a video or a song per year now. That's hardly taking over the market. Out of hundreds of eBooks each year. That's a pretty negligible percentage, kiddos.

[shrug].

Hitch

[rkomar]

Originally Posted by graycyn

I seem to recall that when I read it, I got BOTH the graphics and the text, which was highly annoying!

I saw the same thing when reading on my two year old ereader (PocketBook Color). It was annoying, but at least nothing was missing.

[Hitch]

Originally Posted by rkomar

I saw the same thing when reading on my two year old ereader (PocketBook Color). It was annoying, but at least nothing was missing.

I read that Cormoran Strike and yes, I think that's what I received, too. Irked the hell out of me, but again, as you say, at least everythign was there. DUMB-@$$ formatting job.

I recently read another book, done by...Minotaur? A Holmesian Pastiche, by Meyers? Had footnotes which were ABYSMAL to use. Like so* . That's it. Only the asterisk had the link. Nothing else.

Now, I have bony tiny wee fingers and even I struggled to tap that. Ended up taking me 3-5 attempts, to see each.

Not the increasingly more common[*], with all three characters as the link. Noooooo, just an asterism.

I was so angry I wrote to their accessibility department, which, of course, promptly ignored me.

Hitch

[Renate]

Originally Posted by Hitch

Had footnotes which were ABYSMAL to use. Like so*

I find all footnotes (even with numbers) a pain to hit.
That's why I LOVE my "flipit" button that alternates between text and footnotes.

Another rant: I hate when they format EACH footnote as a separate page.
At the very least that screws up page count.
A "500 page book" and it ends at page 250.

[Hitch]

Originally Posted by Renate

I find all footnotes (even with numbers) a pain to hit.
That's why I LOVE my "flipit" button that alternates between text and footnotes.

Sounds fun and usable. Can't say I know what it is. :-)

Another rant: I hate when they format EACH footnote as a separate page.
At the very least that screws up page count.
A "500 page book" and it ends at page 250.

The footnote-as-page has to do with the popup footnotes for KDP/Kindle. That's why they do that.

And yes, it can screw up the page count, possibly. It is not, at this time, yet clear to me that it does.

Hitch

[ZodWallop]

Originally Posted by Hitch

...in the past decade, let's face it, all the doom and gloom about the Daily Prophet ebooks has pretty much come to naught.

Come on, admit it, boys, we all, all remember the "Immersedition" disaster, right? The closest, thus far, to the Prophet? It burst upon the scene with a fanfare of trumpets and then died a terrible, horrible death.

I'm not familiar with Immersedition, but I do remember Level 26: The World’s First Digi-Novel™ (where each chapter included a link to a non-essential video clip). I also remember the Harry Potter Enhanced Editions and a couple of other enhanced editions. None of them caught on.