The Hobbit at Feedbooks - Page 3

zelda_pinwheel · 12-30-2008, 09:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HarryT

The fundamental difference between a CC work and one that's in the PD is that a CC work is "owned" by its author, and fully protected by copyright law. Nobody owns a work that it's the PD, and anyone can do absolutely anything they wish with it.

i suppose it can be stated like that, but if a cc work is released under a licence including a "share-alike" (copyleft) clause, it explicitly gives the right to modify the original work and create derivative works from it, the only obligation being that the new works must be distributed under the same licence. and unless the CC licence specifically includes the "non-commercial" clause you are not prohibited from using them to commercial ends. so the notion of ownership is rather blurry here.

HarryT · 12-30-2008, 09:32 AM

The "copyleft" type of CC licence is rarely - if ever - used for books. They are virtually always distributed under a "no derivatives, no commercial use" licence. ie authors are happy to have their books distributed free of charge, but they generally aren't happy (very understandably!) for other people to profit from that.

zelda_pinwheel · 12-30-2008, 09:36 AM

that's quite possible, and makes sense to me. it is just another aspect of copyright law which *could* be applied to books, depending on the mental disposition of the author.

my original point, which i think has been convincingly made, was that copyright law is anything but straightforward, and it's perfectly plausible someone could be confused about it or not understand it fully, or have a misconception about it.

HarryT · 12-30-2008, 09:42 AM

Well, call me a cynical old so-and-so if you will, Zelda, but I'm afraid that I feel that it's unlikely that four books which can only be obtained as illegal eBooks are going to be "accidentally" uploaded anywhere.

As far as copyright law being complicated goes, if you live in the US, then yes, it's quite ludicrously complex. For those of us living in the EU it's pretty straightforward. I'll grant you that France, with that funny "world war" stuff, is an exception

.

pilotbob · 12-30-2008, 10:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HarryT

... or perhaps I'm just old and cynical

.

I resemble that remark. Well, oldish.

BOb

zelda_pinwheel · 12-30-2008, 10:02 AM

i do think that's a bit cynical, harry. depending on the age and country of residence of the uploader (to name only 2 of the multiple factors in play) they could easily not have realised that the books were not in the PD. they might in fact even live in a country which has no copyright laws at all (there are some : check the list). even if they don't, they may not realise that this specific work is not available as a legal ebook. it's old enough that it's quite plausible it could be in the PD by now, as jellby mentioned.

as for european copyright laws being straightforward, well, i really think that with current technology such geographical limitations become almost meaningless (on mobileread alone we've got members representing god knows how many different countries), particularly since even within the EU we have the strange exception of France and its clauses for the two world wars, and maybe other exceptions for other EU countries (i haven't checked). the very fact that you have pages and pages of explanation and exceptions and specific rules on wikipedia means that overall the laws are too complex.

pilotbob · 12-30-2008, 10:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zelda_pinwheel

*shocking* !!! and they're so limpid and straightforward, too.

Sigh... I feel so stupid when I have to look up a word that some French chick uses in a forum. A very intelligent French chick.. but nevertheless.

BOb

zelda_pinwheel · 12-30-2008, 10:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pilotbob

Sigh... I feel so stupid when I have to look up a word that some French chick uses in a forum. A very intelligent French chick.. but nevertheless.

BOb

that's me, on a covert mission to surreptitiously expand the vocabularies of everyone who reads my posts...

if it makes you feel better, "limpide" exists in french as well and it's pretty commonly used... (or did you mean "shocking" ??

)

tompe · 12-30-2008, 01:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HarryT

Well, call me a cynical old so-and-so if you will, Zelda, but I'm afraid that I feel that it's unlikely that four books which can only be obtained as illegal eBooks are going to be "accidentally" uploaded anywhere.

It is not the case that you go to a place and it says "here for downloading illegal eBooks". A lot of things is available for download and a lot of things legally available.

And I actually thought that one version of Lord of the Rings was in the public domain but after reading a bit more about it I became unsure.

pilotbob · 12-30-2008, 01:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zelda_pinwheel

that's me, on a covert mission to surreptitiously expand the vocabularies of everyone who reads my posts...

Not so covert any more now is it?

BOb

zelda_pinwheel · 12-30-2008, 01:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pilotbob

Not so covert any more now is it?

BOb

well, i'm sure i can trust you with my secret.

pilotbob · 12-30-2008, 01:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zelda_pinwheel

well, i'm sure i can trust you with my secret.

I won't tell a soul. Not even my cat... that is, if I had a cat.

BOb

zelda_pinwheel · 12-30-2008, 01:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pilotbob

I won't tell a soul. Not even my cat... that is, if I had a cat.

BOb

i knew i could count on you.

mtravellerh · 12-30-2008, 04:11 PM

You got an unfair advantage there, Zee. You didn't bother to tell Bob that "limpide" in French is a much more common word than limpid is in English, now did ya?

zelda_pinwheel · 12-30-2008, 04:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mtravellerh

You got an unfair advantage there, Zee. You didn't bother to tell Bob that "limpide" in French is a much more common word than limpid is in English, now did ya?

well, i don't know how common "limpid" is in english (i mean, i know it, so it can't be completely obscure, right ?) but i *did* mention the french word :

Quote:

Originally Posted by zelda_pinwheel

if it makes you feel better, "limpide" exists in french as well and it's pretty commonly used... (or did you mean "shocking" ??

)

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12-30-2008, 09:32 AM	#32
HarryT eBook Enthusiast Posts: 85,544 Karma: 93383099 Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: UK Device: Kindle Oasis 2, iPad Pro 10.5", iPhone 6	The "copyleft" type of CC licence is rarely - if ever - used for books. They are virtually always distributed under a "no derivatives, no commercial use" licence. ie authors are happy to have their books distributed free of charge, but they generally aren't happy (very understandably!) for other people to profit from that.

12-30-2008, 09:36 AM	#33
zelda_pinwheel zeldinha zippy zeldissima Posts: 27,827 Karma: 921169 Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Paris, France Device: eb1150 & is that a nook in her pocket, or she just happy to see you?	that's quite possible, and makes sense to me. it is just another aspect of copyright law which could be applied to books, depending on the mental disposition of the author. my original point, which i think has been convincingly made, was that copyright law is anything but straightforward, and it's perfectly plausible someone could be confused about it or not understand it fully, or have a misconception about it.

12-30-2008, 09:42 AM	#34
HarryT eBook Enthusiast Posts: 85,544 Karma: 93383099 Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: UK Device: Kindle Oasis 2, iPad Pro 10.5", iPhone 6	Well, call me a cynical old so-and-so if you will, Zelda, but I'm afraid that I feel that it's unlikely that four books which can only be obtained as illegal eBooks are going to be "accidentally" uploaded anywhere. As far as copyright law being complicated goes, if you live in the US, then yes, it's quite ludicrously complex. For those of us living in the EU it's pretty straightforward. I'll grant you that France, with that funny "world war" stuff, is an exception .

12-30-2008, 10:02 AM	#36
zelda_pinwheel zeldinha zippy zeldissima Posts: 27,827 Karma: 921169 Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Paris, France Device: eb1150 & is that a nook in her pocket, or she just happy to see you?	i do think that's a bit cynical, harry. depending on the age and country of residence of the uploader (to name only 2 of the multiple factors in play) they could easily not have realised that the books were not in the PD. they might in fact even live in a country which has no copyright laws at all (there are some : check the list). even if they don't, they may not realise that this specific work is not available as a legal ebook. it's old enough that it's quite plausible it could be in the PD by now, as jellby mentioned. as for european copyright laws being straightforward, well, i really think that with current technology such geographical limitations become almost meaningless (on mobileread alone we've got members representing god knows how many different countries), particularly since even within the EU we have the strange exception of France and its clauses for the two world wars, and maybe other exceptions for other EU countries (i haven't checked). the very fact that you have pages and pages of explanation and exceptions and specific rules on wikipedia means that overall the laws are too complex.

12-30-2008, 04:11 PM	#44
mtravellerh book creator Posts: 9,657 Karma: 3856660 Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Luxembourg Device: Kindle Scribe	You got an unfair advantage there, Zee. You didn't bother to tell Bob that "limpide" in French is a much more common word than limpid is in English, now did ya?

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