TOC Page Numbers?

[John F]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

But it also has to update the ToC every time. But you probably are correct that it's not as much as I made it sound.

Jon, this is what is frustrating about your posts. You go from "it can't be done", to "it is to hard", to it "not as much as I made it sound".

And this has been discussed before, and each time you start out with it can't be done.

[MGlitch]

Originally Posted by John F

Jon, this is what is frustrating about your posts. You go from "it can't be done", to "it is to hard", to it "not as much as I made it sound".

And this has been discussed before, and each time you start out with it can't be done.

Even more so here where two people have already said it’s possible with the current system in place.

Sure I’m not a programmer but logic dictates that if Kobo already knows the pages in the ebook, where the chapters start and end, etc. and adjusts those on the fly when changes are made that they are capable of displaying the result of the change in the ToC.

They’ve already done the math. It’s just opting to display the result somewhere else and keep it updated.

[JJ Johnson]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

You cannot have page numbers in the ToC for KePub as the page numbers are 1 screen = 1 page and what page the chapters start on can easily change with a settings change sich as changing the font size.

If you were talking about ePub, there you have stable page numbers and you could add in the page numbers to the ToC (by hand only).

I've yet to use ePub files, having always use the conversion to kepub since I've had my Kobo Libra. How do epub files have stable page numbers when you can still (I assume) change font size? Do pages get split across screens?

[MGlitch]

Originally Posted by JJ Johnson

I've yet to use ePub files, having always use the conversion to kepub since I've had my Kobo Libra. How do epub files have stable page numbers when you can still (I assume) change font size? Do pages get split across screens?

Yes, ePub uses ADE page numbers which Adobe freely admits is a system made up using numbers pulled out of their butt.

Jon is their major, possibly only?, champion here. The rest of us preferring kepubs 1 screen = 1 page or ADE but acknowledging that whatever system has its pros and cons.

[DNSB]

Originally Posted by MGlitch

Yes, ePub uses ADE page numbers which Adobe freely admits is a system made up using numbers pulled out of their butt.

Jon is their major, possibly only?, champion here. The rest of us preferring kepubs 1 screen = 1 page or ADE but acknowledging that whatever system has its pros and cons.

I would say that describing the Adobe synthetic page number algorithm as having been "pulled out their butt" is drawing a long bow. Though I am curious as to where you saw that "freely admits: statement.

I prefer Adobe page numbers for the simple reason that they are consistent across my devices. Page 256 is page 256 on my Mini, Clara HD, Forma, iPad Pro or my laptop hooked to dual 32" UHD monitors. By contrast, kepub numbering varies all over the place depending on the device I am reading on which is pretty damned useless when I am trying to find a page in a tech manual. OTOH, I prefer search to page numbers.

I will freely admit that I love yokels going on about using the "one true page numbers". It's just so futtering amusing.

[MGlitch]

Originally Posted by DNSB

I would say that describing the Adobe synthetic page number algorithm as having been "pulled out their butt" is drawing a long bow. Though I am curious as to where you saw that "freely admits: statement.

I will freely admit that I love yokels going on about using the "one true page numbers". It's just so futtering amusing.

It was in one of the threads where page numbering and "the best way" to do it blew up. Perhaps "freely admits" is a bit generous, but their developers who worked on it didn't mince words.

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by MGlitch

Yes, ePub uses ADE page numbers which Adobe freely admits is a system made up using numbers pulled out of their butt.

Jon is their major, possibly only?, champion here. The rest of us preferring kepubs 1 screen = 1 page or ADE but acknowledging that whatever system has its pros and cons.

If you find he page number discussion thread, you'll find that others prefer the AD style page numbers. Access used to have a similar way of doing page numbers before it was changed to 1 page = 1 screen.

[JSWolf]

It doesn't matter how Adobe came up with 1024 compressed bytes = 1 page. But the thing Adobe did was come up with a page number system that doesn't change based on screen size, font, font size, line height, resolution, or margins. So as DNSB said, the same page on on device is the same page on another does make it easier to go to that same page on a different device.

[davidfor]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

If you find he page number discussion thread, you'll find that others prefer the AD style page numbers. Access used to have a similar way of doing page numbers before it was changed to 1 page = 1 screen.

Which doesn't prove anything. There were plenty of people in the thread that stated they preferred the per screen method of page numbering. The real point is that they don't jump in at any opportunity and push their opinion and state it as absolute fact. Honestly, it is getting tiring.

[4691mls]

Originally Posted by JJ Johnson

I've yet to use ePub files, having always use the conversion to kepub since I've had my Kobo Libra. How do epub files have stable page numbers when you can still (I assume) change font size? Do pages get split across screens?

Yes, depending on the font size and/or screen size of your device it may be split over two or more pages.

Originally Posted by DNSB

I prefer Adobe page numbers for the simple reason that they are consistent across my devices. Page 256 is page 256 on my Mini, Clara HD, Forma, iPad Pro or my laptop hooked to dual 32" UHD monitors. By contrast, kepub numbering varies all over the place depending on the device I am reading on which is pretty damned useless when I am trying to find a page in a tech manual. OTOH, I prefer search to page numbers.

This, and the fact that I can compare book length. I know someone will come here and say "if you read on the same size font regularly in all your the Kebpubs with screen numbering then you will still be able to compare book size". However, since there's no numerical way to set font size (so you are always reading on, say, a 12-point font) so there's no way to be sure you are using the same size on a different book. And changing the font size by one increment can change the screen count by 50+ pages.

I know someone will probably say "just use epubs instead of kepubs". I primarily read library books and want to be able to sync them directly on the Kobo, so I can't choose epubs.

I completely understand that some people really like the per-screen count. I am not claiming the Adobe system is better for everybody! I just wish Kobo could have found a way to keep the Adobo count as an option for those who prefer it. Or offer some other system that would be consistent across devices, such as word count.

[MGlitch]

I think most of us are tired of the page numbers debate and just comment to correct Jon that one way is not the only way it can be done. Which he has a habit of insisting on every time the subject is presented and then backs away slowly making concessions every time.

[JSWolf]

Access used to have page numbering similar to Adobe just using a different much of characters for the page count.

[DNSB]

Originally Posted by JJ Johnson

I've yet to use ePub files, having always use the conversion to kepub since I've had my Kobo Libra. How do epub files have stable page numbers when you can still (I assume) change font size? Do pages get split across screens?

The Adobe synthetic page numbers have nothing to do with the screen and more to do with the number of compressed bytes. At large font sizes, a page may be 5 screens, at a small font size, a page may be less than half the screen. The only use I've found for page numbers in epubs is to allow me to go to the same page on different devices. And even there, searching is faster since Kobo does not have a goto page number implemented for use when reading.

One recent book my wife was reading had a pagelist in the nav.xhtml. The page numbers there were based on the hard cover first edition and you could use them to go to a page matching the page in that hard cover edition. Other than the first page of a chapter, you would end up at some random point in the screen. Sadly, it turned out to be useless since her book club had some people reading on Kobo and Kindle ereaders while others had paperback and hardcover pbooks which had half their virtual meeting wasted on locating what one person called page 179 and two others referred to as page 204 for example.

[93terp]

Now I regret having asked what I thought was a simple question....

[DNSB]

Originally Posted by 93terp

Now I regret having asked what I thought was a simple question....

Page numbers have been a touchy topic for quite a while. As I've said, I find some of the near religious discussions about wanting fixed page numbers and reflowable text rather amusing.

As for your original question, for epubs, adding the page number to the TOC using either pagemap/pagelist or Adobe's synthetic page numbers could be done more easily as it would only need to be done once since the numbers are fixed. For kepubs, it's much more of a pain since any change in font size, margins, headers/footers would require the page numbers to be recalculated on the fly.