Indies and Kindle Unlimited

[tomsem]

Originally Posted by pwalker8

One of the indies that I tend to read is Glynn Stewart. I just got an email from him (mass mailing I'm sure) announcing two things, first that he is going on Kindle Unlimited and second announcing a Patreon account for him for $5 a novel. Of course, you are automatically charged $5 each time he comes out with a new novel.

Interesting twist. Basically, if you don't want to sign up for Kindle Unlimited, you join the Patreon account and get his books for $5 a piece. I guess this is to get around the contract limitations of being a Kindle Unlimited author. Having no desire to subscribe to Kindle Unlimited, that's the direction I went. I wonder how long before other authors try this loophole and if Amazon does anything about it.

I wonder if in fact it is a loophole, or whether the author is just flying under Amazon’s radar:

Exclusivity
When you enroll an eBook in KDP Select, you're committing to making the digital format of that book available exclusively through KDP while it's enrolled in the program. You can continue to distribute your book in physical format or in any format other than digital.

Source: https://kdp.amazon.com/en_US/help/to...90#eligibility

Of course he can sell physical books, but I assume $5/book is for an ebook.

(To have a book in KU, you have to meet requirements of KDP Select)

[DiapDealer]

Originally Posted by FrustratedReader

We don't want to promote the lies of these largely unregulated, enormous US Corporations that cheat on taxes, lie to Congress and the EU and consumers and have profits larger than many countries.

Again: lets try to stick to facts please. Those are allegations and opinions (profits larger than many countries' what?) presented as facts. I don't care if you hate huge corporations, but you need to stop pretending it's for entirely rational (or even real) reasons.

The fact is that there are businesses out there that are far more predatory, and far more devious and deceitful than Amazon (or Google or Facebook put together), but people don't rave about them because they're not as easy to demonize as multinationals.

[fjtorres]

Originally Posted by DuckieTigger

No, the real one. Amazon has a 100% monopoly on KU.

Well, Kindle unlimited isn't the only ebook subscription service.
Scribd is still hanging around with measurable numbers.

So no, KU is no monopoly.
Just very big in its segment (~89%).

As for the authors, it really depends what they use it for: some put all their books on, full time, some put in the first of each series, some rotate them in and out a few at a time. Many use it as a replacement for permafree. Everybody's mileage varies.

It's paying out over $25M a month ($300M a year) to authors which is in aggregate more than several other channels gross revenue, which is why it has no shortage of books old and new. But like any channel in retail,nothing is guaranteed. Some make out like bandits, some muddle through, some don't.

[fjtorres]

Originally Posted by DiapDealer

The fact is that there are businesses out there that are far more predatory, and far more devious and deceitful than Amazon (or Google or Facebook put together), but people don't rave about them because they're not as easy to demonize as multinationals.

*cough*telecoms*cough*.
No need to go much further, though we could.

CableCos.
Paycheck loan(sharks).
Credit Card companies.
Banks.
On and on and on.

Amazon has been investigated by DOJ and several governments and come out clean.
Yes, they are big enough that there costs are lower than some competitors.
But they still make a profit off each sale.

And they've never been reported as engaging in price fixing conspiracies.

[Quoth]

Telcos don't even come close to scale of the companies mentioned. Nor do banks (which have been regulated, they are not allowed to use the information gleaned from transactions, don't expect Facebook pay to honour that), credit cards or loan shark companies (many loan sharks forced out in EU countries)

Kindle Unlimited is not just a subscription service. It's designed to build a monopoly. Kindle Select forbids publishing elsewhere. Apple is being investigated for this practice with Apps in its store.

The USA doesn't have the ability or will to investigate or kerb Amazon. It's appalling that they own Audible, CreateSpace, IMDB, GoodReads and been allowed to buy up other booksellers.

It's time it was stopped.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...ions_by_Amazon
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...ns_by_Alphabet (Google)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...ns_by_Facebook

These companies act as if laws of regular companies don't apply simply because they use the Internet. They buy out competition. Sometimes via shell companies.
They make promises to various competition authorities that they break.

[DiapDealer]

So zero chance for any objective discussion concerning this, then. Gotcha. Enjoy your echo chamber.

[fjtorres]

First, Kindle Unlimited isn't the only way to get content on a Kindle ereader or app.
It is entirely possible to get a Kindle reader or app, load it with thousands of ebooks, and never pay Amazon a cent to load the content. You don't even need an app.

You can't say that about Apple, where all content has to go via Apple controlled channels.

So, not a valid comparison.

Second, neither KU nor Amazon are public utilities or mandated in any way.
You don't have to use either.
Amazon doesn't send made men to force you to buy from them nor are they only source of the products they offer. If you are a consumer you can buy from somebody else. If you are a publisher, you are free to go to use any channel for sales. KDP does not demand exclusivity.

Third, Amazon is a for profit business offering a variety of services under a variety of terms. They aren't a government service or charity. They operate under mutually agreeable contracts: they indicate under what conditions they will offer their services. Sometimes they dicker, sometimes they don't. It varies. Their baseline position for KU is exclusivity but they will waive the requirement if it is to their advantage (read: profitable).

Do consider that when it comes to KU and publishers, Amazon is the paying customer, not the subscriber. They are licensing the content and offering it to their subscribers for free. Like Netflix. Like Hulu. Like HBO. Like Disney+. It's their money and they can spend it any way they want. Likewise, providers are free to license their content to KU, three months at a time, or not. Nobody gets shot for walking away from Amazon's money.

There is a large body of law that guarantees businesses, big and small, the right to design their products as they see fit. They do not lose those rights because they are "too successful" in the eyes of some. Likewise, there is no law that says they have to do business with everybody regardless of proposed terms. There is no compulsory licensing or must carry involved.

Businesses have the same right to say "no" as consumers.
Again, that right doesn't go away when the company is successful.

Don't like tbe terms?
Don't do business with them.
Lots of publishers choose not to do business with KU.
Likewise, there are many publishers Amazon chooses not to do business with.
Both are using their legal rights as allowed by law.

Regardless of whoever feels they shouldn't.

[Dr. Drib]

Originally Posted by barryem

When I bought my Paperwhite last year it came with 6 months free Kindle Unlimited. I'd never really been interested in KU but it was free so I decided to play with it. In the first month I read two really excellent books by authors I'd never heard of that, without KU, would have been way too pricey to take a chance on. All of a sudden I was interested.

My free period expired several months ago and I still have it and I've found myself reading more and more books from KU, mostly books I probably wouldn't have read otherwise. Probably about half of the books I read are now from KU.

I have enough books in my library and on my hard drive that, at age 79, I'll probably never run out of good books to read, so I don't really need KU, but I sure do like it.

Barry

Me, too!

Are you close to Mountain View?

[pwalker8]

Originally Posted by DiapDealer

I'm fine with your (and others) speculative ramblings. I just take issue with those who tend to pretend that their opinions are objective fact.

Non-subjective statements like "Amazon is bad," (or Google, or Facebook) or "Kindle Unlimited is bad," or "Amazon is a monopoly," or "Amazon is hurting X" are pointless. They're nothing but hyperbole and opinion trying to being passed off as fact. There is no "side of the angels" to take regarding any of this this. They're all (Amazon, Apple, Publishers, Google, McDonalds, the plumber, the baker, the candlestick maker) "bad" and yet they all provide something "good." Stop looking for morality where there's none to be had.

In legal terms, Amazon is very much a monopoly. "Monopoly is a control or advantage obtained by one entity over the commercial market in a specific area."

https://definitions.uslegal.com/m/monopoly/

Note, that being in a monopolistic position is not illegal. It simply means that certain actions become automatically illegal if you do it while having a monopolistic position. Does it mean that what Amazon is doing is bad? Not really. As far as I know, Amazon isn't forcing any author to join the KU and isn't penalizing any others who pull out of the KU. No harm, no foul in my book. Just my opinion, of course. I do think that Amazon has to be very careful about what they do. They don't have the political cover that they had 10 years ago.

[DuckieTigger]

Originally Posted by pwalker8

Some of the series are interconnected, others are not. I actually started with the Red Falcon series, which is a side series to the Starship's Mage Series.
Interstellar Mage occurs immediately after Starship's Mage and has many of the same characters. Hand of Mars also occurs right after Starship's Mage and follows one of the lead characters from Starship Mage.

Red Falcon is my favorite of his, followed by Starship Mage. Both are a mix of technology and magic. Duchy of Terra and Castle Federation are both standard space epic type series. A couple of his series are more fantasy. others are more super hero.

I said it in private, but want to thank you here as well. Over christmas time I will have more time for reading due to less time at work. I think I will start with Starship's Mage and then still have the option to go chronological or stick with series. Granted, that is if the first book is engaging enough to continue.

[leebase]

Originally Posted by fjtorres

.

You can't say that about Apple, where all content has to go via Apple controlled channels.
.

What? You can buy books from any book store directly on an iPad or iPhone and read them in any app on the iPhone or iPad. Every ebook store and every library system is supported. Lots of Independant book apps as well that aren’t tied to stores.

You can’t buy books from Kobo or anywhere else on a Kindle.

Kindle tablets don’t have any other book store apps, or independant book apps available from the Amazon App Store. You have to install the google play store....something you have to research on the internet to find out about.

[DuckieTigger]

Originally Posted by leebase

What? You can buy books from any book store directly on an iPad or iPhone and read them in any app on the iPhone or iPad. Every ebook store and every library system is supported. Lots of Independant book apps as well that aren’t tied to stores.

The problem is that all those apps go through Apple's app store. Sideloading goes through an app as well, as I understand. And you cannot sideload apps. You cannot buy anything in an app unless you funnel the money through Apple. Apps with other payment options are not allowed. Apps are only allowed access to the internet through Safari services. Everything goes through Apple approved channels (apps, data, money, sideloaded content). That is the basis of the ongoing law suit.

[leebase]

I buy books from Amazon the same way I write this post...via the web browser. No side loading needed.

Meanwhile Amazon doesn’t have ANY book apps from competitors on either their Kindle eInk devices or the Kindle Fire tablets.

As for “side loading”....you click on a book link and are presented an “open in” option and any book app that supports the file type can be chosen. Lots of apps have multiple methods for loading books. My favorite app reader, FBReader, uses google drive. I load books to my FBReader Network via a web page, and the books are saved to my google drive. The FBReader app then displays them by title, author or series.

All the competitor book stores have apps in Apple's App Store. NO competing book store apps are on the kindle or kindle fire tablets.

You can purchase books via their websites on the browser on the iPad or iPhone.

If you want to sell digital goods via apps...you have to go through Apple. If you sell via your website...you don’t.

[DuckieTigger]

Originally Posted by leebase

If you want to sell digital goods via apps...you have to go through Apple. If you sell via your website...you don’t.

Exactly. And that is the problem. It is inconvenient to be forced to get out of the app, buy in browser, and go back to app to read. Apple's Books app doesn't have to use the browser, everybody else does.

[MGlitch]

Originally Posted by DuckieTigger

Exactly. And that is the problem. It is inconvenient to be forced to get out of the app, buy in browser, and go back to app to read. Apple's Books app doesn't have to use the browser, everybody else does.

As long as you’re willing to cite Amazon with their even more restrictive set up. Which makes apple look like a slightly fenced yard.