Icarus quietly goes out of business

[John F]

Originally Posted by rcentros

All their current devices, but I don't have a current Kobo device. And, I'm guessing, a lot of people don't. Meanwhile any Kindle works with Overdrive (where Kindle Overdrive borrowing is available, i.e., in the U.S.).



...

And libraries in the U.S. that use Overdrive are a subset. You will get more coverage of U.S. libraries, I believe, using ADE. For example FReading, cloud library, ...

[DiapDealer]

Originally Posted by rcentros

This is going to be a "forever thing" isn't it?

Nope. I'm all done.

[rcentros]

Originally Posted by John F

And libraries in the U.S. that use Overdrive are a subset. You will get more coverage of U.S. libraries, I believe, using ADE. For example FReading, cloud library, ...

So far I've been lucky. The libraries in North Richland Hills (past) and Fort Worth (now) use Overdrive. I've already checked the libraries in the Boise, ID area (our next destination in a couple months) and they all use Overdrive. Although they also add others, like RB Digital, Hoopla and (if we end up in Boise proper) they have Safari Books Online, which would be nice. I have heard of libraries going away from Overdrive, I hope I keep "lucking out" for a while and not move to one of those.

[rcentros]

Originally Posted by DiapDealer

Nope. I'm all done.

Me too. But I didn't mean that this would come up just in this particular thread or just between us, I meant this subject will keep cropping up, probably "forever" on Mobileread.

[DiapDealer]

Originally Posted by rcentros

Me too. But I didn't mean that this would come up just in this particular thread or just between us, I meant this subject will keep cropping up, probably "forever" on Mobileread.

I actually think it will eventually disappear (new topic, so I don't feel I'm violating my "I'm done." ). Much like nobody ever really debated which publisher printed the "better," easier-to-look-at, and easier-to-read hardbacks, I look for devices/apps to eventually become mostly immaterial. Ereading folk will get back to debating which books and authors are "better" again. Like the rest of the reading world.

I'm happy to read a great book on/in whatever device/app is closest to hand. Every device/app "goes away" pretty away quickly for me.

[ekbell]

Originally Posted by DiapDealer

I understand there's always going to preferences. But I honestly think it's time that people start owning up to the fact that they're at least partly responsible for their own "imprisonment." By falling too much in love with certain formats, branding, screen technologies, DRM status, reading apps, fonts, kerning, styles, evil empires, buttons, haptics, collections, blah de blah de blah. It'd be like someone only being able to read a hardcover with off-white, deckle-edged, recycled paper on the second and fourth Thursdays of a month with an "R" in it before ebooks came along.

I just want buy books and read them. A tablet and a handful of apps lets mash all those garden walls flat and do just that. I've been done with making it hard on myself for a long time, now. Y'all can carry that torch without me. *shrug*

EDIT: please note that I'm not dismissing the importance many of these choices/features can hold for those with disabilities or special needs.

I mainly want to keep track of my books without checking six separate places (Google, Kobo, Kindle, Verbum/logos, paper and misc sold without DRM). Being able to directly access books from my catalog for all but two sources and read them on my favorite reading app happens to be a very nice bonus.

[DiapDealer]

Originally Posted by ekbell

I mainly want to keep track of my books without checking six separate places (Google, Kobo, Kindle, Verbum/logos, paper and misc sold without DRM). Being able to directly access books from my catalog for all but two sources and read them on my favorite reading app happens to be a very nice bonus.

I tend not to keep track of ebooks after I'm done reading them (and I only buy them when I'm ready to read them). So which store is hosting a copy of a particular ebook I bought is of very little relevance to me. I realize that may not be a typical use case, though. But I have found I'm not entirely alone. Not all readers are book curators.

[issybird]

Originally Posted by DiapDealer

I tend not to keep track of ebooks after I'm done reading them (and I only buy them when I'm ready to read them). So which store is hosting a copy of a particular ebook I bought is of very little relevance to me. I realize that may not be a typical use case, though. But I have found I'm not entirely alone. Not all readers are book curators.

I think ereaders (the people, not the devices) of the voracious type have been very slow to adapt their buying/hoarding habits to the new reality*. Back in the paper day, you needed a backlog, so you always had something to read on hand. There also was the factor that you had to pick something up when you saw it, as it might not be available later**. Both of these factors have been largely obviated by digital books so there's no reason to have a huge virtual stack of unread books, but old habits die hard, as they say. Huge sales (Kobo!) were also a factor, but much less so now; there's especially little reason to cross platforms.

Yeah, I know, rereading. To the extent you do, it would make some difference, but that's when platform matters. And after the huge shakeout, I don't think anyone's library is at a big risk with Kindle or Kobo or Google. (I can hear it now, "I wouldn't trust any seller to keep my books." My own reaction is, "That was then; this is now.")

I guess my personal bottom line is that I can't see myself not being able to find books to read. Even if Kobo and Kindle simultaneously went belly up overnight, I'd dust myself off and make a quick side trip to OverDrive or Project Gutenberg while I regrouped. Curating a large elibrary seems less and less worth the effort to me, compared to the benefits of on-demand reading. And I suspect most who have large elibraries are still in the red when it comes to money spent, as compared to what they'd have spent on each book purchased at market price when read.

*I include myself.

**Yes, some digital books cease to be available, but it's not a significant factor.

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by issybird

Yeah, I know, rereading. To the extent you do, it would make some difference, but that's when platform matters. And after the huge shakeout, I don't think anyone's library is at a big risk with Kindle or Kobo or Google. (I can hear it now, "I wouldn't trust any seller to keep my books." My own reaction is, "That was then; this is now.")

With smaller publishers, however, it can be an issue. Eg, I've been buying Baen's monthly ebook bundles for close to 20 years now. A considerable number of the books that I bought in the early years are not only unavailable to purchase for new buyers, but are even unavailable for me to download (because Baen no longer have the rights to the books), so I would indeed have lost them had I not had them in my own library. So yes, "I wouldn't trust any seller to keep my books" .

[DiapDealer]

Originally Posted by issybird

I think ereaders (the people, not the devices) of the voracious type have been very slow to adapt their buying/hoarding habits to the new reality*. Back in the paper day, you needed a backlog, so you always had something to read on hand.

Guilty. Birthdays, Christmas, trips to the mall (those programs in elementary school where you ordered books and they brought them to you!)--these were all used to stock up on as much reading material as possible. I never knew when I might have the chance to buy books again.

Originally Posted by issybird

There also was the factor that you had to pick something up when you saw it, as it might not be available later**.

I've never really encountered this issue. Even though they might disappear off the bookseller's shelf, they were usually available from the library. My tastes weren't (aren't) quite so eclectic that titles ever became totally unobtainable to me. The switch to ebooks has pretty much eliminated that possibility altogether in my case.

Originally Posted by issybird

Both of these factors have been largely obviated by digital books so there's no reason to have a huge virtual stack of unread books, but old habits die hard, as they say. Huge sales (Kobo!) were also a factor, but much less so now; there's especially little reason to cross platforms.

Those habits DID die hard for me. They just didn't take a long time to do it. A handful of epiphanies about how I buy and read, and--poof!--no more stockpiling/curating hangups. Deleting all the freebies I wasn't ready to read (or was never going to read), and all the books I was never going to want to re-read left me with a very manageable "owned" TBR. From then on, my main tbr list became entirely virtual. So no guilt was attached to completely ignoring it and buying something else to read instead.

Originally Posted by issybird

Yeah, I know, rereading. To the extent you do, it would make some difference, but that's when platform matters. And after the huge shakeout, I don't think anyone's library is at a big risk with Kindle or Kobo or Google. (I can hear it now, "I wouldn't trust any seller to keep my books." My own reaction is, "That was then; this is now.")

I'm sure I've mentioned several times that I don't do a lot of rereading, so this is much less of an issue for me. But I do do it occasionally. In those rare cases, I don't mind checking websites for previously purchased copies. And even if those library backups proved to be unavailable (for whatever reason), chances are, I wouldn't mind buying them again (especially if the author is still alive and writing). I've said before that I consider the experience of reading a good book (even only once) to be well worth the average price of admission. In fact, I usually consider it to be a huge bargain. The possibility of a book I want to read again being entirely unavailable for purchase anywhere in the future??... Well, that's simply not something I'm even remotely concerned with.

Originally Posted by issybird

I guess my personal bottom line is that I can't see myself not being able to find books to read. Even if Kobo and Kindle simultaneously went belly up overnight, I'd dust myself off and make a quick side trip to OverDrive or Project Gutenberg while I regrouped. Curating a large elibrary seems less and less worth the effort to me, compared to the benefits of on-demand reading. And I suspect most who have large elibraries are still in the red when it comes to money spent, as compared to what they'd have spent on each book purchased at market price when read.

That's me in a nutshell. Buy 'em (or find 'em), read 'em, and jot down what I thought about 'em on Goodreads. Worry about re-reads later (because I've already gotten my money's worth). It's been quite a liberating experience for me.

[DNSB]

Originally Posted by HarryT

With smaller publishers, however, it can be an issue. Eg, I've been buying Baen's monthly ebook bundles for close to 20 years now. A considerable number of the books that I bought in the early years are not only unavailable to purchase for new buyers, but are even unavailable for me to download (because Baen no longer have the rights to the books), so I would indeed have lost them had I not had them in my own library. So yes, "I wouldn't trust any seller to keep my books" .

I've noticed that most of the books that are no longer available for new purchasers are still available to me to download from Baen. Since I make a habit of downloading and archiving my purchases, most of my looking at older books has been to see if they added an epub edition after my purchase -- a lot of my earlier Baen/Baen Bundle downloads were .lit format.

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by DNSB

I've noticed that most of the books that are no longer available for new purchasers are still available to me to download from Baen.

Most are, yes, but by no means all. An example of one that can’t be downloaded, even by previous purchasers, is “The Second Coming”, by John Dallas, originally published by Baen in their April 2004 bundle. Charles Sheffield’s books, by contrast, although no longer buyable, are still downloadable.

Since I make a habit of downloading and archiving my purchases, most of my looking at older books has been to see if they added an epub edition after my purchase -- a lot of my earlier Baen/Baen Bundle downloads were .lit format.

Yes, me too. I’ve redownloaded everything I can in ePub format.

[ottdmk]

For myself, when it comes to retailer lock-in, I look at how difficult it would be to switch elsewhere.

As much as I would like DRM to die in a fire, it appears to be here to stay in the e-book realm (although I continue to hope that publishers will follow in the music industry's footsteps.)

So that's why I prefer Kobo. As they offer a widely used DRM scheme supported by a number of their competitors, switching away from them is relatively straightforward. I wouldn't even need the assistance of Alf and his merry band of DeDRM developers.

Amazon has made it impossible to switch without the help of Alf. And I've heard that in some cases even Alf can't help.

[shalym]

Originally Posted by stuartjmz

The wall itself may be weak, but the Amazon infrastructure is more restrictive than Kobo's. The very first book I got for my Kobo was an epub from Smashwords, which of course opened fine. To load it on my Paperwhite would have required an extra step. A trivially easy extra step, but still an extra step - over the wall.

Yes...but couldn't you have downloaded the .mobi version from Smashwords? (I know you used to be able to, but I haven't been to Smashwords in years)

Shari

[pwalker8]

Originally Posted by issybird

I think ereaders (the people, not the devices) of the voracious type have been very slow to adapt their buying/hoarding habits to the new reality*. Back in the paper day, you needed a backlog, so you always had something to read on hand. There also was the factor that you had to pick something up when you saw it, as it might not be available later**. Both of these factors have been largely obviated by digital books so there's no reason to have a huge virtual stack of unread books, but old habits die hard, as they say. Huge sales (Kobo!) were also a factor, but much less so now; there's especially little reason to cross platforms.

Yeah, I know, rereading. To the extent you do, it would make some difference, but that's when platform matters. And after the huge shakeout, I don't think anyone's library is at a big risk with Kindle or Kobo or Google. (I can hear it now, "I wouldn't trust any seller to keep my books." My own reaction is, "That was then; this is now.")

I guess my personal bottom line is that I can't see myself not being able to find books to read. Even if Kobo and Kindle simultaneously went belly up overnight, I'd dust myself off and make a quick side trip to OverDrive or Project Gutenberg while I regrouped. Curating a large elibrary seems less and less worth the effort to me, compared to the benefits of on-demand reading. And I suspect most who have large elibraries are still in the red when it comes to money spent, as compared to what they'd have spent on each book purchased at market price when read.

*I include myself.

**Yes, some digital books cease to be available, but it's not a significant factor.

I would say that a lot of that is driven by the type of books you like to read and if you re-read books. I will certainly admit that I don't belong to that vast majority of readers who are happy buying and reading one book at a time and then never looking at that book again. I would also say that I don't belong to the group of people who would be happy just reading PG books. I read a lot, I buy a lot, I re-read a lot and with the exception of some classics, most of what I read is not in PD and likely will not be in PD during my lifetime even if I do live another 40 years.

One of the first ebooks that I bought was The Complete Enchanter by Pratt and deCamp from Peanut Press on my palm pilot. When they went belly up, I lost access to that ebook and it was well over a decade before the book made it back to ebook. I have way too many books that are favorites where the author is now dead, but the books are not in PD.

You say that was then, but this is now and certainly Amazon isn't likely to go belly up, but I actually have quite a few ebooks that I've purchased that are no longer available for purchase and several that are no longer downloadable. Fortunately, I do download and deDRM books as I buy them, so I have them all.

I would say that the vast majority of readers are quite happy with on demand reading and would likely be quite happy with a subscription service as long as it includes the NYT best seller list books. Of course, that the rub with subscription services. They typically don't include current NYT best sellers.