Currently PDF challenged--help!

[Jim Lester]

Originally Posted by Alfy

I am not sure how important ebooks are for Adobe and the PDF format, but if the format is to be successful on the current generation of readers (and probably the following ones, a screen the size of a paperback is what people really want in the end), SOME way has to be found to make the docs appear correctly without complex user's intervention like the one I mention above in the thread...

If you want an indication of what Adobe is thinking you should be asking marketing instead of engineering Bill McCoy's blog contains interesting little nuggets such as this article:
http://blogs.adobe.com/billmccoy/200...uthor_ebo.html

My personal opinion is that if you want to do reflow it's much easier if you start with a reflowable file format instead of page oriented file format (and you'll get better results), and so I use ePub files on my Sony Reader instead of PDF files. Fortunately, the major publishers seem to be coming to this conclusion as well and they are moving to generating ePub content.

[ProDigit]

I think it's silly why people so much don't want to turn their reader in landscape mode.
I mean, sure you'll have to scroll more, but same happens when comparing a book in text format to a large pbook version .

[Alfy]

Originally Posted by Jim Lester

If you want an indication of what Adobe is thinking you should be asking marketing instead of engineering Bill McCoy's blog contains interesting little nuggets such as this article:
http://blogs.adobe.com/billmccoy/200...uthor_ebo.html

My personal opinion is that if you want to do reflow it's much easier if you start with a reflowable file format instead of page oriented file format (and you'll get better results), and so I use ePub files on my Sony Reader instead of PDF files. Fortunately, the major publishers seem to be coming to this conclusion as well and they are moving to generating ePub content.

Very interesting article indeed!!!

I am all new to both my ereader and the world of converting files to read them on it. I am on an extended holiday, and so I have had time to spend hours on the net looking for texts on the issue of e-publishing. And I've come to the conclusion that PDF is indeed the better format for text, IF (and it's a big if) the document is properly formatted for the screen.

After all, one cannot simply discard 300 years of typographic tradition. My best looking books, and by good looking, I do mean most pleasant to read, not just look at, have been home-cooked using inDesign. It takes quite a bit of time, work and knowledge to produce, but the results have been better than anything sold in any of the reflowable formats, even the native .lrf.

The move to ePub, as mentioned in your article, is mainly validated by the need to read books on a variety of formats. This is true only to a certain extend: although various devices are used, the three leading e-ink devices, the PRS-505, Kindle and Iliad Rex Book, have reasonably similar-sized screens. If you start with a PDF as your base, it would be difficult to reformat it to be read on these, but if you have the original press file (inDesign, Quark, or even Word), it's a breeze.

Some publishers used to take pride in the way they would typeset a particular volume. I still have books, paperbacks, where the last page is dedicated to telling you which fonts have been used and with what philosophy. It does seem editors don't give a damn anymore. The main problem with the Adobe Digital Editions offerings when displayed on my reader is not due to Adobe, but to publishers who will not go the length to provide the proper formats. I understand it would entail an additional cost, but I'm still dismayed.

So yes, you are right, reflowable format is, alas, the way to go. Alas, because although it means we will be able to read our books with little trouble, it also mean they will never look as good as they used to. I, for one, will endeavor to find my books in .rtf format, so I can "home cook" them myself. But then I'm on holidays, and I might not always have the time to spend 2 hours on a book just get it to look the way a book should.

[dregar]

Originally Posted by ProDigit

I think it's silly why people so much don't want to turn their reader in landscape mode.
I mean, sure you'll have to scroll more, but same happens when comparing a book in text format to a large pbook version .

My only complaint with reading in landscape mode has to do with ergonomics. It's harder to hold the reader this way.

[DaleDe]

Originally Posted by Alfy

Very interesting article indeed!!!

Some publishers used to take pride in the way they would typeset a particular volume. I still have books, paperbacks, where the last page is dedicated to telling you which fonts have been used and with what philosophy. It does seem editors don't give a damn anymore. The main problem with the Adobe Digital Editions offerings when displayed on my reader is not due to Adobe, but to publishers who will not go the length to provide the proper formats. I understand it would entail an additional cost, but I'm still dismayed.

So yes, you are right, reflowable format is, alas, the way to go. Alas, because although it means we will be able to read our books with little trouble, it also mean they will never look as good as they used to. I, for one, will endeavor to find my books in .rtf format, so I can "home cook" them myself. But then I'm on holidays, and I might not always have the time to spend 2 hours on a book just get it to look the way a book should.

I agree with you but we just need to push a little. All is not lost with reflowable formats. A computer can be taught to create a good looking page with kerning and reasonable looking breaks on lines and smart hyphenation and all the write stuff to rival a hand built page. Epub is only a database format. It has only rudimentary knowledge of the sort of thing you talk about but a reader could be designed to make such a presentation.

Dale

[Valloric]

Originally Posted by Alfy

My best looking books, and by good looking, I do mean most pleasant to read, not just look at, have been home-cooked using inDesign. It takes quite a bit of time, work and knowledge to produce, but the results have been better than anything sold in any of the reflowable formats, even the native .lrf.

Well naturally the best looking books for you will be the books you design for yourself, as opposed to books someone else designs for a wide audience. But publishers can't typeset a book specifically for each customer.

With such a wide variety of people and tastes, there's bound to always be people who will dislike a specific design, in any field.

You can't please everyone.

[Alfy]

Originally Posted by Valloric

Well naturally the best looking books for you will be the books you design for yourself, as opposed to books someone else designs for a wide audience. But publishers can't typeset a book specifically for each customer.

With such a wide variety of people and tastes, there's bound to always be people who will dislike a specific design, in any field.

You can't please everyone.

I was talking of my home cooked books against content available from publishers not because I want them to typeset according to my taste, but because publishers don't make any effort to typeset ebooks AT ALL.

Actually, I think the best looking book will be one were the publisher and the author work to harmonize form and content into an elegant whole. My choice of fonts is my take on that whole, I much rather see the author's.

[Alfy]

Originally Posted by DaleDe

I agree with you but we just need to push a little. All is not lost with reflowable formats. A computer can be taught to create a good looking page with kerning and reasonable looking breaks on lines and smart hyphenation and all the write stuff to rival a hand built page. Epub is only a database format. It has only rudimentary knowledge of the sort of thing you talk about but a reader could be designed to make such a presentation.

Dale

Very true, the reader's software could be developed to produce better docs. But you would still need a lot of input at the publishing end. Otherwise, all books would look the same but every set does not fit every book (of course, you could have options in the reader to get the setting to vary, but again, do you really want the users to make these choices?).

Don't get me wrong, my eReader is my best friend! I'm just a bit disheartened that with the eInk, technology has really moved forward, but publishers seem extremely slow to embrace it. Oh well, I guess that'll be a discussion for another thread...

[ProDigit]

The file literally needs to be made up with 3 layouts, because upto today there are about 3 different screen resolutions.
Also, what if a small lettertype gives perfect layout, but is hard to read for some, who will prefer to display it with a larger type?
Then another layout needs to be applied.

The best layout you can get is if you have a book written with 2 columns per page (which you won't find very easely anymore) to use 1 column as page width.
The fact that the last 2 or 3 words of a line of text often end up in the next row,means that the resolution in essence is too low.
That's why I prefer about 720pix width at least.

On Sony's 505 with a 600pix screen, can you do a hack to have a very small lettertype,like eg: if standard type is 12 or 14pt, and 10pt smallest, can you hack it to 8pt?
Not only will that solve some layout issues, it'll also allow you to read more text on a page,and it probably takes less energy for the computer(displaying smaller lettertypes without too much of curls whistles and bells, than displaying them LARGE with every edge rounded off, and additional decoration).
Probably resulting in longer battery life too.

I know there's a font 'hack' to install your favorite font; perhaps there's a way to decrease the size of the font as well?

[dordale]

Originally Posted by ProDigit

I know there's a font 'hack' to install your favorite font; perhaps there's a way to decrease the size of the font as well?

ProDigit--
You can set the base size of the font when making an LRF file with Calibre or BookDesigner. The size you set will be the size of the "small" font and the medium and large sizes will be relative to that.

Is that what you're asking?

dordale