Can Intelligent Literature survive the digital age?

[tompe]

Originally Posted by Penforhire

Maybe Sven Birkerts was just a poor teacher or his students were a sub-par cross section. It remains anecdotal evidence anyway, not any sort of scientific study.

It was a scientific study and the result was the quoted thing about watchers of TV and videos. Was the quote to long so people did not read it and therefore prove the point?

[Penforhire]

Very clever. But no, the quote directly relates his "study" as anecdotal.

[tompe]

Originally Posted by Penforhire

Very clever. But no, the quote directly relates his "study" as anecdotal.

No, it does not. "Before plunging into the page vs screen debate, he recalled his experience of teaching ", that is before coming to the real study. "Birkerts found that, as watchers of TV and videos" and that is the result of the study.

[Lemurion]

Yes, I'm sure it can.

The medium is not the message and "literary fiction" has never appealed to all readers. Some will embrace it the way they have embraced paperbacks while others will not.

[Penforhire]

Yes, it does. The study is relayed to the reader of this article only as this cute anedote. I know what you are saying. Do you know what I am saying?

[nekokami]

The study is fine, but has nothing to do with whether reading is improved or impaired by attempting to do it with an electronic device. In fact, I would argue that the study may suggest that anything that brings people back to reading-- making it easier to do, making it "cool," etc-- would help with the problem the study author describes-- people haven't been reading, they've been watching TV.

[FlorenceArt]

Tompe: the book is not described in the article as a scientific study, and I would guess, from this review, that it is not. This book is about is the opinions of Sven Birkets, not scientific facts.

Personally I would very much like to see statistical facts about this. This kind of opinion belongs to the "new generations are degenerate idiots" category, which has been around for centuries.

Here is an article to read about the illusions we may all have about "things going down the drain nowadays". There are, by the way, many more interesting, amusing and thought-provoking posts on this blog on similar subjects.

Just because we feel the world around us has become too fast-paced for book reading does not mean that less people in this generation are able to read a "difficult" book than in the previous generations. It may be that books that were considered "normal" read 20 years ago are found difficult by younger generations. But it's also possible that the people who read those books 20 years ago would be baffled by some of the books younger people read.

I am not knowledgeable enough about these things to form an opinion myself, but until I find some hint that documented statistical evidence backs these "studies", I will treat them with caution.

[tompe]

Originally Posted by FlorenceArt

Tompe: the book is not described in the article as a scientific study, and I would guess, from this review, that it is not. This book is about is the opinions of Sven Birkets, not scientific facts.

I thought "seminal study" implied a scientific work and that "Birkerts found that," implies a scientific study because you cannot find out anything without studying it scientifically. But you are right that the review indicated that it is not so I would say that the description was wrong.

[HarryT]

"Seminal" implies that he was the first to study it, but not that the study was conducted scientifically.

[tompe]

Originally Posted by HarryT

"Seminal" implies that he was the first to study it, but not that the study was conducted scientifically.

But "study" implies that it is scientific and and seminal implies that it has been used as a basis for further work.

[nekokami]

For a study of rates of reading in the US, see: http://www.nea.gov/news/news07/TRNR.html

From the "executive summary":

Although there has been measurable progress in recent years in reading ability at the elementary school level, all progress appears to halt as children enter their teenage years. There is a general decline in reading among teenage and adult Americans.Most alarming, both reading ability and the habit of regular reading have greatly declined among college graduates.

Summary of conclusions:

1. Young adults are reading fewer books in general.
2. Reading is declining as an activity among teenagers.
3. College attendance no longer guarantees active reading habits.
4. Teens and young adults spend less time reading than people of other age groups
5. Even when reading does occur, it competes with other media. This multitasking suggests less focused engagement with a text.
6. American families are spending less on books than at almost any other time in the past two decades.

There are more data and conclusions in the following categories:
- Americans are reading less well
- The declines in reading have civic, social, and economic implications

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by HarryT

I'm the world's worst typist - it just struck me as amusing given the subject matter of the thread .

Use Firefox. It's auto-spell check works wonders. It's saved me from making tons of typos.

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by nekokami

For a study of rates of reading in the US, see: http://www.nea.gov/news/news07/TRNR.html

From the "executive summary":



Summary of conclusions:

1. Young adults are reading fewer books in general.
2. Reading is declining as an activity among teenagers.
3. College attendance no longer guarantees active reading habits.
4. Teens and young adults spend less time reading than people of other age groups
5. Even when reading does occur, it competes with other media. This multitasking suggests less focused engagement with a text.
6. American families are spending less on books than at almost any other time in the past two decades.

There are more data and conclusions in the following categories:
- Americans are reading less well
- The declines in reading have civic, social, and economic implications

I think some of this has to do with the way books are forced on kids in school and the way they are made to dissect them. if I had not been a reader before that time, I might not have gotten into reading as I didn't like the way the English teachers taught literature.

And now we have computers, the internet, video games, TV/video, sports, and music to compete for time. And that leaves rather little time to actually sit and read. What I think should happen is parents should try to get kids interested in reading before they take up all this other stuff. That way they will enjoy it regardless of what other interests and teachers shoving literature at them.

Luckily, I can read in the car (except if I am driving) or on public transport, in a waiting room, etc. So I can get in some reading where most don't or won't.

My mother does read books. My dad just really reads the newspaper. I think that stems from when he was working. He'd come home, have dinner and then go sit and read the paper while watching TV. It was what he did a lot. There wasn't really all that much time during the work week for him to read books.

[nekokami]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

I think some of this has to do with the way books are forced on kids in school and the way they are made to dissect them. if I had not been a reader before that time, I might not have gotten into reading as I didn't like the way the English teachers taught literature.

I don't think this school practice has changed much in Western schools for the past two centuries. The competition from other media (and structured activities) seems a much likelier candidate to me. Other candidates might include the reduction in leisure time for the middle class, leaving parents less time to read, so they don't present themselves as model readers to their children. I don't think we know exactly why reading rates are falling, and it would be quite difficult to prove (or even strongly support) any one theory.

[Penforhire]

I imagine fewer "traditional families" play a part. Anedoctally, it is harder for teachers to get parental support in a larger number of cases than, say, thirty years ago.