Thinking about returning to kobo

[Josieb1]

I have two Kobos and no problems here.

[johnnyb]

Originally Posted by Josieb1

I have two Kobos and no problems here.

Do you also have a Mac? Are you using calibre? Are you using the Kobo extension plugins? Are you using kepub?
For me, the problem is especially pronounced in connection with calibre. It does not seem to want to let got of my Kobo, hence the failed ejections. What Kobo could actually do is let users update the database manually (some “search for new books” button that essentially simulates a proper “eject-search for files-add new files to db-refresh display” sequence) and try to make their readers less sensitive to atypical ejection. Sometimes, upon ejecting, my H2O reverts to its home screen as if nothing happened and I only realize that it hasn’t loaded the database properly is because it won’t let me delete tiles anymore. If I then start reading are deleting files or anything that is written to the database, I risk messing it up.
If Kobo could find a way (again, like Amazon, Pocketbook, Tolino, Sony) to be less sensitive about atypical ejection, that would help some people tremendously...

[chrisridd]

Originally Posted by johnnyb

Do you also have a Mac? Are you using calibre? Are you using the Kobo extension plugins? Are you using kepub?

I am, and have no problems with the combination.

The only weak link (sic) IMHO is the cruddy Micro USB connector to the Kobo, which can be easily bent, drop out, and generally give an intermittent connection. I got an Amazon Basics cable recently which so far is proving robust.

[meeera]

Originally Posted by chrisridd

I am, and have no problems with the combination.

Ditto, as I already said. Have you posted your own troubleshooting thread yet, johnnyb? Your obvious first steps are to restart computer and device, make sure all software is up to date, use a different cable, and use a different USB port. But hijacking someone else's post to troubleshoot is impolite.

[davidfor]

Originally Posted by johnnyb

Do you also have a Mac? Are you using calibre? Are you using the Kobo extension plugins? Are you using kepub?
For me, the problem is especially pronounced in connection with calibre. It does not seem to want to let got of my Kobo, hence the failed ejections. What Kobo could actually do is let users update the database manually (some “search for new books” button that essentially simulates a proper “eject-search for files-add new files to db-refresh display” sequence) and try to make their readers less sensitive to atypical ejection. Sometimes, upon ejecting, my H2O reverts to its home screen as if nothing happened and I only realize that it hasn’t loaded the database properly is because it won’t let me delete tiles anymore. If I then start reading are deleting files or anything that is written to the database, I risk messing it up.

With that description, the problem isn't the device being ejected. The problem is whether the database was closed properly by whatever had it opened. So...

• What happens if you don't use calibre? Just connect and manually copy books to the device? Or disable the driver and use save-to-disk or connect-as-folder?
• What happens if you close calibre and eject using the the Mac tools?
• What happens if you connect, wait for the initial jobs to finish and then eject?
• What happens if you wait a few minutes after calibre finishes its jobs that access the device?
• By "Kobo extension plugins", I assume you mean my Kobo Utilities plugin. If so, what functions of it are you using every time you connect? What if you don't use them> Do you use the automatic backup?
• You mention kepubs. I doubt that is significant in itself. But, are you using the extended driver? That has one extra database update that the main driver does not have. That should not be used much unless you are sending a lot of books that the device cannot generate cover images for.
• Has this changed recently? I changed the Python SQLite library and restructured some code. This would have been in calibre 2.63.

The last thing is, how long has this been going on? Until this thread, I can't think of any Mac issues being reported for a while. The last issue I can think of was a version of Mac version that didn't recognise the devices properly. Maybe I have missed something, but I'm sure I haven't seen any mention of this.

[jackastor]

Kobo touch, Kobo glo, aura, aura h2O all working no freezes or any issue not directly related to the user..

Regards

Jack

[Omnigeek]

Originally Posted by johnnyb

I have had and still sometimes have tons of problems with my H2O... It randomly fails to unmount properly from Calibre and does not register books loaded onto the device (does not search for new books, does not update the library). It freezes occasionally. It occasionally gets the database corrupted, forcing me to restore my content (and losing my notes and highlights in the process). Maybe this is specific to the Mac build of Calibre or some Mac-specific USB stuff but it certainly does not work as “advertised” here on the board, and never has (been using the H2O since 3.12.something).

I had the same problems with my H2O, purchased last fall, until my H2O mysteriously showed a "broken" screen. I also was connecting it to a Mac (using OSX 10.9.5) so don't know if there's a common variable there. Kobo blamed the screen on me dropping the unit or other user mistreatment. Nope, wasn't dropped, didn't have things placed on top of it, was kept inside a sleep cover. Anyway, my point on THIS thread is simply that johnnyb isn't the only one who experienced this.

[compurandom]

I have both a mac and a linux system, and I connect my kobo to both.
While I haven't had any huge problems per se caused by kobo's interaction with these two systems and calibre, I can say for sure that there is something wrong with the way kobo handles the usb interface.

When I plug the kobo into either system, it is recognized as two devices -- one is the kobo internal disk, the other is my SD card plugged into the kobo. Both of these show up, and as separate disk devices.

If I eject *either* of these two devices, both devices are disconnected, as if the USB cable had been suddenly pulled. It doesn't matter if I had files open on the one not being ejected, it gets removed without the filesystem being properly unmounted.

Once I noticed that, I made sure that if I am manually ejecting the device, I unmount the filesystem on the other device before ejecting. (Ejecting in linux and mac automatically unmount the device being ejected.)

I have other devices (including an android tablet) that show up like this as two disks (for the same reason), and none of them disconnect both disks when one disk is ejected.

For some reason, when calibre is told to eject the device, it doesn't typically cause problems. Maybe because there are no files open on either filesystem when it does it, maybe because it issues eject commands to both devices fast enough that they get ejected properly at the same time. Maybe calibre issues unmount requests before it ejects. Maybe I've just been lucky. I don't know. But the way kobo handles this is certainly wrong.

[church mouse]

Originally Posted by compurandom

I have both a mac and a linux system, and I connect my kobo to both.
While I haven't had any huge problems per se caused by kobo's interaction with these two systems and calibre, I can say for sure that there is something wrong with the way kobo handles the usb interface.

When I plug the kobo into either system, it is recognized as two devices -- one is the kobo internal disk, the other is my SD card plugged into the kobo. Both of these show up, and as separate disk devices.

If I eject *either* of these two devices, both devices are disconnected, as if the USB cable had been suddenly pulled. It doesn't matter if I had files open on the one not being ejected, it gets removed without the filesystem being properly unmounted.

Once I noticed that, I made sure that if I am manually ejecting the device, I unmount the filesystem on the other device before ejecting. (Ejecting in linux and mac automatically unmount the device being ejected.)

I have other devices (including an android tablet) that show up like this as two disks (for the same reason), and none of them disconnect both disks when one disk is ejected.

For some reason, when calibre is told to eject the device, it doesn't typically cause problems. Maybe because there are no files open on either filesystem when it does it, maybe because it issues eject commands to both devices fast enough that they get ejected properly at the same time. Maybe calibre issues unmount requests before it ejects. Maybe I've just been lucky. I don't know. But the way kobo handles this is certainly wrong.

I had so many problems caused by this on my Glo that I stopped using the external card.

Sent from my Wileyfox Swift using Tapatalk

[johnnyb]

Originally Posted by church mouse

I had so many problems caused by this on my Glo that I stopped using the external card.

This is, in a nutshell, what is wrong with Kobo. You gotta learn how to work around stuff and then start working around stuff because you know that mishandling will mess up your device.
Not saying that they don’t have beautiful screens and make beautiful interfaces and great adjustment options for text and a nice annotations view, but the road to profiting from all of this is rocky to say the least...

[johnnyb]

Originally Posted by davidfor

With that description, the problem isn't the device being ejected. The problem is whether the database was closed properly by whatever had it opened. So...

• What happens if you don't use calibre? Just connect and manually copy books to the device? Or disable the driver and use save-to-disk or connect-as-folder?
• What happens if you close calibre and eject using the the Mac tools?
• What happens if you connect, wait for the initial jobs to finish and then eject?
• What happens if you wait a few minutes after calibre finishes its jobs that access the device?
• By "Kobo extension plugins", I assume you mean my Kobo Utilities plugin. If so, what functions of it are you using every time you connect? What if you don't use them> Do you use the automatic backup?
• You mention kepubs. I doubt that is significant in itself. But, are you using the extended driver? That has one extra database update that the main driver does not have. That should not be used much unless you are sending a lot of books that the device cannot generate cover images for.
• Has this changed recently? I changed the Python SQLite library and restructured some code. This would have been in calibre 2.63.

The last thing is, how long has this been going on? Until this thread, I can't think of any Mac issues being reported for a while. The last issue I can think of was a version of Mac version that didn't recognise the devices properly. Maybe I have missed something, but I'm sure I haven't seen any mention of this.

First things first, this has been going on ever since I got my H2O, which was pretty much around the time when it came out. Have been setting up the device numerous times with new firmware releases, fresh databases and all: no changes... (also switched computers in between, new Mac, new fresh system and everything)
then:
1. I don’t use automatic functions of the Extended Driver anymore because these kept messing up the database reliably.
2. Behavior is the same whether I eject from calibre or Finder.
3. Behavior is not occurring when I export kepubs from calibre, close calibre, then connect Kobo, then copy new books to Kobo, then eject (this causes expected database update)
4. I have disabled the „Extended driver“ and tried with regular epubs at some point, no change in behavior.

Wrap up: the USB drivers on the H2O are working somehow but they are so messed up that even slight deviation from their most basic function completely messes them up. This is basically what others in this thread have described as well. Calibre may be an additional culprit, not releasing the devices properly (in some cases) but that should not lead to unrecognized files and database corruption. (additional note: the Kindle Paperwhite I have has zero problems, the Pocketbook I used to own had zero problems, the Sony readers I used to own had zero problems).
Bottom line: this is really not to do with trying to determine what I am doing wrong but with the H2O not working properly. Ejecting USB devices from operating systems is a really basic operation that has a very simple protocol and if a device acts up while the user adheres to that basic protocol, the user is not to blame. Please don’t try!

[mbovenka]

Originally Posted by johnnyb

Bottom line: this is really not to do with trying to determine what I am doing wrong but with the H2O not working properly. Ejecting USB devices from operating systems is a really basic operation that has a very simple protocol and if a device acts up while the user adheres to that basic protocol, the user is not to blame. Please don’t try!

But if this were true, why are there loads of people having no isuues at all with their Kobos, myself included? I have owned an Aura HD, 3 H2Os (damn thieves!) and now a One, and they all worked fine, with XP (the HD), Win8, 8.1 & 10 (H2Os & One) and Calibre and the Extended Driver. I've had exactly 1 corrupted database, and that was me disconnecting the thing whilst Calibre was writing to it. Nothing is proof against that...

Not saying you're neccessarily doing something wrong, but you're clearly an outlier for some as yet undetermined reason.

[Lyn2012]

Just adding my experience which is that I have had the H2O since launch and have had no trouble with connecting/disconnecting (from within Calibre) from either my iMac or MBP, both running 10.10.5 and using whichever USB cable I have lying around at the time. I know this doesn't help with your problem, and I hope you discover the reason and solution soon as it must be very annoying.

[davidfor]

Originally Posted by johnnyb

First things first, this has been going on ever since I got my H2O, which was pretty much around the time when it came out. Have been setting up the device numerous times with new firmware releases, fresh databases and all: no changes... (also switched computers in between, new Mac, new fresh system and everything)
then:
1. I don’t use automatic functions of the Extended Driver anymore because these kept messing up the database reliably.
2. Behavior is the same whether I eject from calibre or Finder.
3. Behavior is not occurring when I export kepubs from calibre, close calibre, then connect Kobo, then copy new books to Kobo, then eject (this causes expected database update)
4. I have disabled the „Extended driver“ and tried with regular epubs at some point, no change in behavior.

Wrap up: the USB drivers on the H2O are working somehow but they are so messed up that even slight deviation from their most basic function completely messes them up. This is basically what others in this thread have described as well. Calibre may be an additional culprit, not releasing the devices properly (in some cases) but that should not lead to unrecognized files and database corruption. (additional note: the Kindle Paperwhite I have has zero problems, the Pocketbook I used to own had zero problems, the Sony readers I used to own had zero problems).

With all that, have you tried disabling the KoboTouch driver as well and connecting to the device as a folder? It won't read the database, but it will at least let you see the books on the device. It will be interesting to see if ejecting after that causes any problems.

Bottom line: this is really not to do with trying to determine what I am doing wrong but with the H2O not working properly. Ejecting USB devices from operating systems is a really basic operation that has a very simple protocol and if a device acts up while the user adheres to that basic protocol, the user is not to blame. Please don’t try!

My problem with this statement is that no-one else is complaining. In five years of being on this forum and using Kobo devices, and four years of maintaining the KoboTouch driver in calibre, and the only persistent complaint I can think of was some unusual combination of Windows drivers on AMD based machines. And I have had enough bugs reported against the driver and my Kobo Utilities plugin from Mac users to know there are plenty of Mac users not ahve any problems.

The only conclusion I can draw from that is that is something about your Mac. Or some not that common combination of Mac hardware and software. Or something that you are doing. I have absolutely no idea what it could be in any of those cases.

But, one thing, have you tried recently? Because of a change in the database on the device, I had to change the SQLite Python library used in the driver. I also cleaned up some code as I went. If the cause is calibre, it is possible that this has changed enough that the problem no loner exists.

[johnnyb]

Originally Posted by davidfor

My problem with this statement is that no-one else is complaining. In five years of being on this forum and using Kobo devices, and four years of maintaining the KoboTouch driver in calibre, and the only persistent complaint I can think of was some unusual combination of Windows drivers on AMD based machines.

Actually there are similar descriptions of the problems just a couple of posts further up. These aren’t complaint but just „meh, moved on, don’t care“ statements (which is exactly what I did).
Also, my point stands: There’s NO OTHER ereader that has similar problems, so even if it is *my computer* that’s causing all of this it is also *my Kobo* causing all of this. There is no way around it, Kobo’s are just oversensitive in the USB department...

Originally Posted by davidfor

But, one thing, have you tried recently? Because of a change in the database on the device, I had to change the SQLite Python library used in the driver. I also cleaned up some code as I went. If the cause is calibre, it is possible that this has changed enough that the problem no loner exists.

Thanks! Will give that another try once I feel like rebuilding my database again...