Kindle Monitors All Activity?

[Barcey]

I hope that I didn't give the impression that I was accusing Amazon of collecting the data because I'm not. I was speaking in general. I thought that DavidH raised a valid concern and didn't deserve the tinfoil hat response.

When Nate posted the log file I looked at it from geek curiosity. I remember looking at the data in the log and thinking that it would be trivial to parse the log and gather data that would be very valuable to Amazon and the book industry in general. Amazon already has data on what books you've bought from them but this has data such as:
1) How soon after you bought the book did you read it.
2) When and how long did it take you to read it.
3) How many books do you read at a time.
4) How many books did you read from Amazon vs other sources
5) How much time did you spend reading books vs newspapers etc..

You get the idea.

I consider my reading habits to be personal data though and I don't think it's Amazon's right to gather this data about me just because I agreed to buy a Kindle from them (and I didn't buy a Kindle either).

I wouldn't have a problem if Amazon sent an email to their Kindle users and explained they would like to gather this data and you have the ability to volunteer the information. Otherwise you will be excluded. A lot of people would agree to be data gathering pods.

I don't think that Amazon would gather the information without explicit approval though because they know it would be a public relations nightmare and the data gathered wouldn't be worth the negative publicity. The negative publicity would be from people like readingaloud who are very concerned about this type of activity.

[Alisa]

I'm sorry people were a bit harsh with you. I think they're just teasing but it can be difficult to tell in print. They're mostly a good group of folks so please don't take it too hard.

Yes, Amazon can monitor my content. Are they amassing personal information so the government can disappear me to the Gitmo? I doubt it. It gave me pause when I first read that, too, but I figured I really don't care if people know about my bookmarks if they already know which books I have. If I want to keep it secret which books I'm reading, I need to buy them in print for cash. If I download it or pay for it in any way that links it to my name, it's no longer private.

Originally Posted by readingaloud

Whatever happened to the idea of presuming good faith?

I don't want to get into a flame war, but as the person who is accused, by implication at least, of being a drunk paranoid liar who believes in space aliens, I think I might show the source of my "misinformation". It is the "Amazon Kindle: License Agreement and Terms of Use" document, available on the Amazon web site. Here's the most relevant passage:

Information Received. The Device Software will provide Amazon with data about your Device and its interaction with the Service (such as available memory, up-time, log files and signal strength) and information related to the content on your Device and your use of it (such as automatic bookmarking of the last page read and content deletions from the Device). Annotations, bookmarks, notes, highlights, or similar markings you make in your Device are backed up through the Service. Information we receive is subject to the Amazon.com Privacy Notice.

Now, if this doesn't worry you, I won't bother to tell you that it should. And if the device isn't actually doing what the document says it's doing, that's good. But I still find the idea that the device might do that, and that Amazon reserves the right to do it, breathtakingly intrusive.

Lots of people seem to be blissfully unaware of the issue, and that's disturbing in itself. Someday, perhaps, the people who don't care about privacy will either be glad that there were some of us who do, or, more likely, wish that they had.

[slayda]

I have to say, based on 39 years of experience, that a great deal of "real" information can be gathered from using many "open sources" of data and correlating that data. The "You have nothing to fear unless you have something to hide." statement gives a false sense of security. We all have something to hide, otherwise why wear clothes or live behind closed doors. We may not be guilty of some crime but we do have things we want kept private. It's just that we (the geek crowd) are so aware of how little real privacy we do have that we tend often to ignore those "innocent" collectors like the Kindle, cookies on our computers, data collected when we buy things with a credit/debit card, etc. The only real privacy nowadays is to remain so obscure that no one notices us.

And there are laws concerning what may or may not be collected, at least against US citizens by US organizations. They fall under what is called "oversite" and came into being after certain Government organizations improperly collected data (I believe back in the 1960's).

[Alisa]

I'm not sure if that reply was directed at me, but I certainly was not trying to imply that you shouldn't worry unless you have something to hide. I was saying that we tend to focus on new technologies and the way they erode our privacy when the old technologies aren't necessarily safer.

[RickyMaveety]

Originally Posted by Barcey

I hope that I didn't give the impression that I was accusing Amazon of collecting the data because I'm not. I was speaking in general. I thought that DavidH raised a valid concern and didn't deserve the tinfoil hat response.

When Nate posted the log file I looked at it from geek curiosity. I remember looking at the data in the log and thinking that it would be trivial to parse the log and gather data that would be very valuable to Amazon and the book industry in general. Amazon already has data on what books you've bought from them but this has data such as:
1) How soon after you bought the book did you read it.
2) When and how long did it take you to read it.
3) How many books do you read at a time.
4) How many books did you read from Amazon vs other sources
5) How much time did you spend reading books vs newspapers etc..

You get the idea.

I consider my reading habits to be personal data though and I don't think it's Amazon's right to gather this data about me just because I agreed to buy a Kindle from them (and I didn't buy a Kindle either).

I wouldn't have a problem if Amazon sent an email to their Kindle users and explained they would like to gather this data and you have the ability to volunteer the information. Otherwise you will be excluded. A lot of people would agree to be data gathering pods.

I don't think that Amazon would gather the information without explicit approval though because they know it would be a public relations nightmare and the data gathered wouldn't be worth the negative publicity. The negative publicity would be from people like readingaloud who are very concerned about this type of activity.

Keeping in mind that you can download books, read books, even purchase books from Amazon all without ever using Whispernet, I really don't think that Amazon could even hope to use it to monitor ... well, anything.

Most of the time, I simply leave it off. The few times I have used Whispernet have been to purchase a book that I particularly wanted to read, and thought I had already purchased.

The rest of the time, I download to the computer from Amazon, or here, or sometimes from other ebook sellers and transfer the items to my memory card when I am offline.

All I can say is, it would be a really crappy means of monitoring someone if it is so screamingly easy to circumvent.