Anyone here ever seen csCF6BBF71 type style classes?

[Hitch]

Originally Posted by darryl

My experience is that such people often rely upon friends for computer support and the like, few of whom are professionals in the area. Some are very good, but some ........

@Darryl:

you know, that's a good point. The thing that still wrinkles my forehead (oh, yeah, SURE, try to pass that off as a legit thing!!!) is the idea that he didn't just ASK us.

Hmph. I wonder if he thought that would engender a whole new bookmaking fee? I'll bet it was something like that. We do not do that--we simply charge editing fees--but a lot of converters do.

Thanks, Darry.

Hitch

[darryl]

@Hitch. I think that between all of us we now have a pretty good idea of what likely happened. The fear of a new fee is certainly sufficient to explain the client behaviour. Unfortunately, in acting this way, this particular client cast aspersions on the quality of your work and wasted substantial amounts of your time. My advice for what it is worth is don't waste any more. And, if you need to smash something, pick something cheap and nasty. Or better still, have a nice scotch after work.

[Hitch]

Originally Posted by darryl

@Hitch. I think that between all of us we now have a pretty good idea of what likely happened. The fear of a new fee is certainly sufficient to explain the client behaviour. Unfortunately, in acting this way, this particular client cast aspersions on the quality of your work and wasted substantial amounts of your time. My advice for what it is worth is don't waste any more. And, if you need to smash something, pick something cheap and nasty. Or better still, have a nice scotch after work.

Darryl:

Yeah, you're right. When I think about it, this client is particularly bad--even amongst my gaggle--about reading or even opening instructions. He must have assumed that there would be some egregious fee. I'll do the BC bit, and see what I can dig up. Not for knowledge--I think you are all correct--but to make sure that WHATEVER was so bloody important gets in the file that I end up uploading.

Thanks much. I mean it, guys. This week is particularly bad for me, in terms of "investigation time." The help is invaluable.

(Still thinking about what I'm going to smash. Hmmmm.)

Hitch

[BetterRed]

Originally Posted by darryl

My experience is that such people often rely upon friends for computer support and the like, few of whom are professionals in the area. Some are very good, but some ........

That was my first thought, a former colleague from the NYC borough admin. When I used DevExpress, my contract was with a SNG govt agency.

@Hitch - take co-workers to Greek restaurant and ask for a pile of smashable plates

BR

[BobC]

Originally Posted by Hitch

Update:

So, this client tells us, gosh, he can't email us, and he can't let us know this or that, because he's going to these really REMOTE areas. For weeks, adn this is why he can't down-/up-load his book files, etc. In a fit of despair, I tell him, screw it, I'll upload the bloody things, at least then, I'll know that the right file got where it was going, right? No charge; at this point, I just want the agony to STOP.

and then...

Spoiler:

We get an odd transmission, into our Project Management System (which is on Teamwork Projects SAS)...

A VIDEO of his RV as he's vacationing. He can, by god, send bloody VIDEO, but can he download and then upload that 420kb *&^%$#@! eBOOK! Oh, frack, NOOOOOOOoooooo. Can't do THAT...

<SIGH>

Hitch

Immediate thought is that he is messing you about, however consider the following. He has a mobile phone with camera and an app that uploads his photo's to "The Cloud". He genuinely is away and all his book related stuff is on his PC back home. Taken together this could explain his apparently evasive behaviour.

Just a thought - but don't forget, even if you are paranoid they may still be out to get you

BobC

[Tex2002ans]

Great detective work everyone.

Originally Posted by Hitch

(Still thinking about what I'm going to smash. Hmmmm.)

*Dives and saves the Mattias Ergo Pro*

Originally Posted by BetterRed

Suggestion : reduce the original and butchered epubs back to plain text and run them through the Beyond Compare washing machine to determine if the actual text of the book has been changed.

I am not a fan of the Plain Text comparison (or at least don't rely on that as your only comparison). While it will catch typo corrections + added/removed sentences... its biggest problem is with formatting changes (such as changed bold/italic/blockquote/margins).

If you can't do a direct code comparison (in this case, the HTML was absolutely butchered), then I would rely on converting both Before/After documents using Calibre to an intermediate file type that retains some basic formatting (RTF/DOCX).

Then you run RTF/DOCX comparison tools on it.

Source: I work on a lot of books with multiple editions/versions floating out there with varying quality conversions. I do quite a few A/B/C compares to catch typos/formatting mistakes between them all + make sure mine beats out all the rest.

As you can imagine, the HTML is wildly different between editions, while the text is approximately the same.

Side Note: Depending on the book type, italics alone could be a large amount of changes with zero change to the text itself. Example: An author might go through and add lots of emphasis everywhere throughout a novel's dialogue.

I have also come across cases where some editions removed italics on foreign words ("coup d'état"), or removed italics on a portion of a word such as "unfavorable" (this style has heavily fallen out of favor in more modern typography).

[dgatwood]

Originally Posted by Hitch

Hmph. I wonder if he thought that would engender a whole new bookmaking fee? I'll bet it was something like that. We do not do that--we simply charge editing fees--but a lot of converters do.

It might be worth putting together a one-page set of instructions along the lines of:

Need to make minor corrections? Do NOT attempt to open this EPUB in apps like Word, Sigil, Calibre, etc. These programs can corrupt EPUB files that they did not create initially. Instead:

1. Create a new folder.
2. Put the EPUB file in that folder.
3. Rename the file to end in .zip.
4. Double-click the file to extract it.
5. Delete the ZIP file.
6. Edit the HTML files using a text editor (e.g. notepad).
7. Reconstruct the EPUB file using the instructions below.


Windows:

[insert instructions here]


OS X:

[insert instructions here]

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by dgatwood

It might be worth putting together a one-page set of instructions along the lines of:

Please don't spread falsehoods about Calibre and Sigil. You cannot open an ePub in Word, so that's not going to happen.

[dgatwood]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

Please don't spread falsehoods about Calibre and Sigil. You cannot open an ePub in Word, so that's not going to happen.

Earlier in this thread, someone said that one of the files indicated that Sigil had tried to open the file, failed, and attempted to rebuild one of the metadata files. That is unlikely to be the right thing to do.

Also, if I'm understanding correctly, the software that corrupted the file that we're discussing here was a Word plug-in that lets it import and export EPUB files, so I wouldn't rule out that possibility.

That leaves Calibre. Editing books with Calibre's built-in editor is probably safe. The big worry there is that someone will use Calibre to convert to DOCX, edit it in Word, then convert it back, which is decidedly not safe.

[DiapDealer]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

Please don't spread falsehoods about Calibre and Sigil. You cannot open an ePub in Word, so that's not going to happen.

Speaking as one of the Sigil Maintainers: he wasn't really spreading falsehoods. If the Epub wasn't created with Sigil, it's entirely possible that opening and saving without making any edits could cause unforeseen damage. We take great steps to try and ensure that won't happen, but there are no guarantees. It (Sigil) will certainly alter the structure of any epub that didn't match Sigil's mandated structure.

But regardless... the advice was pretty solid. You don't want clients opening finished epubs with programs that could make changes to the product if they aren't extremely careful.

I appreciate your attempt to defend Sigil, but it's unnecessary in this case. No aspersions were being cast and no falsehoods were being spread. An unknowedgeable client could do serious damage to a finished epub with Sigil (or another program) without realizing it.

If they paid someone to create an epub for them, best they only open the finished product with a reading device or app. Not before they'd uploaded the original to the various retailers, at least. Anything else could be asking for trouble.

[Tex2002ans]

Originally Posted by dgatwood

It might be worth putting together a one-page set of instructions along the lines of:

I believe they already have a simple instruction page on how to download, what to do, step-by-step, very simple instructions.

Many customers then email and complain about how to download it, this isn't working, the file is broken, my EPUB doesn't work, how do I upload this to Amazon (all things clearly answered/avoided in the instructions)... there was never even a hit on the server end (they never even pressed on the link).

You probably need giant red flashing sign that says:

--> CLICK HERE <--

and a giant

Step #1: NOW CLICK HERE

and somehow they pressed on Step #6 and it doesn't work.

Side Note: If you guys don't already read the Tales from Tech Support subreddit, you must:

https://www.reddit.com/r/talesfromtechsupport

One of the latest stories is someone who didn't press "Send" to send an email:

https://www.reddit.com/r/talesfromte...e_send_button/

She typed up the entire email and closed the window. "Email is not working!"

IT guy teaches her how to press the Send button.

2 weeks later............................... same person calling with the same problem.

I mean come on, you wouldn't believe the stuff that customer support has to deal with.

[Freeshadow]

you wouldn't believe the stuff that customer support has to deal with.

Like:"Press any key" message flashing on the screen while the pebkac asking what to do now? Been there, seen that, got the t-shirt. I'm willing to believe a LOT in terms of user idiocy.

[Toxaris]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

Please don't spread falsehoods about Calibre and Sigil. You cannot open an ePub in Word, so that's not going to happen.

Yes, you can. Not out of the box, but you can open an ePUB in Word.

[Hitch]

Originally Posted by dgatwood

It might be worth putting together a one-page set of instructions along the lines of:

Dag:

That's not a bad idea. We already give them a BOATLOAD of instructions, unfortunately--so much so that I wheedled the set down, and now put each set of instructions for each "type" of send (e.g., "ePUB & MOBI, v1" "ePUB, FXL," "MOBI, FXL," etc.) in their respective dropboxes. The dropbox link goes in the "email" that tells them "your stuff is ready, click this, download that, and RTFI."

What I may be able to do, though, is we send an email about "you've approved your book, so we'll now archive this in X days." I could create an attachment, like you suggested, and send that with it. With a title "If you Decide To Make Minor Changes In Your EBooks Yourself." That doesn't, of course, address those that are still in-process, like this guy, but...<shrug>, there will always be outliers.

Thanks. Honestly...I genuinely hadn't thought of that tack. Much appreciated.

Hitch

[Hitch]

Originally Posted by DiapDealer

Speaking as one of the Sigil Maintainers: he wasn't really spreading falsehoods. If the Epub wasn't created with Sigil, it's entirely possible that opening and saving without making any edits could cause unforeseen damage. <SNIP>

interesting sidenote. I had to tweak an ePUB this week that was done by one of our least-experienced eBookmakers. Nothing hot and heavy, just stuff that she won't do that way in another 6 months or so. But HERE is the interesting part:

for some unknown reason, Sigil created an ePUB with TWO (2) mimetype files.

I would have bug-reported it (assuming it isn't already there), but I have NO idea what happened. I was working in the normal way; I changed up some image names (spaces <sigh>); I changed up some sizing on one of the images; I deleted some breaks in a Dedication between lines (tsk)...and that's about it. The bloody thing passed ePUBcheck, mind you--I was only alerted to the problem when I went to view it with ADE, which puked. It wasn't until we unzipped it that we found the problem.

CLUELESS as to the cause. No crashes or anything else, that I know of. Have not had a chance to head over to the list to see if this is known, common, or is known to happen when X occurs. Just thought I'd mention it. I was shocked--it's funny how fast we become accustomed to something being stable, eh?

(Oh--and I saw the Dreaded PSO'D! The Dreaded Pink Screen O'Death! I'd like to say, if I wasn't already, this event would have made me a Troo Believer in the Preview mode. I had this sucker open on Preview, deleted a tag, so that its partner tag went bonkers, and the "oops, only rendered to here" PSO'D appeared--in PREVIEW mode. Fortunately, that meant I could easily fix the issue in the code. LOVED that. I remember full well when the PSO'D ate ePUBS unrecoverably. Good Maintainers!)

P.S.:

Jon, anyone using ePUBTools CAN indeed open an ePUB in Word.

Tex is correct in his recitation of our tediously boring and in-minute-detail destruction sets. And the reality of them. I've now lost track of the egregiously large disparity on the "How to use ADE" 90-second video link hits versus how often it's been sent out. I have YET to figure out, without grossly inconveniencing myself/my crew, how we could FORCE the clients to actually read the instructions, in the proper order. It gets worse DAILY, and no: I'm really NOT exaggerating.

Hitch