Seeking typography feedback -- Small-caps alternative - Page 3

Hitch · 01-08-2016, 06:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JSWolf

I do think Alegreya will be too light for eInk. This is based on seeing the screen grab. I could be wrong, but I doubt it.

Hmph. I'll see if I can dig up a book with it, and slap it on my PPW/Voyages. Not today--still recovering from the accursed email problems (in two bloody directions, for the love of heaven!), but hopefully this weekend sometime, if I get some time off.

Hitch

dgatwood · 01-10-2016, 12:16 AM

As someone who has worked with scripts in the past, I would replace them with normal CAPS.

In TV and movie scripts, character names are invariably in all caps wherever they appear, as are camera motions, transitions, etc. Other things like names of props, stage directions, etc. may be in all caps, depending on their importance and possibly depending on who the script is intended for. (For example, a script printed for the prop people might have names of props that need to be on stage in all caps, but this isn't needed in the copy for an actor.)

The details vary widely, of course. There's nothing approaching a standard, as far as I know.

If you have entire paragraphs in all caps, that's very unusual unless maybe it is a stage direction, and even then, it seems a little unusual to me, because all caps makes text harder to read.

Then again, that was my #1 gripe about teleprompters—most display text in all caps, which makes them harder to read than mixed-case. But I digress.

Hitch · 01-10-2016, 04:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dgatwood

As someone who has worked with scripts in the past, I would replace them with normal CAPS.

In TV and movie scripts, character names are invariably in all caps wherever they appear, as are camera motions, transitions, etc. Other things like names of props, stage directions, etc. may be in all caps, depending on their importance and possibly depending on who the script is intended for. (For example, a script printed for the prop people might have names of props that need to be on stage in all caps, but this isn't needed in the copy for an actor.)

The details vary widely, of course. There's nothing approaching a standard, as far as I know.

If you have entire paragraphs in all caps, that's very unusual unless maybe it is a stage direction, and even then, it seems a little unusual to me, because all caps makes text harder to read.

Then again, that was my #1 gripe about teleprompters—most display text in all caps, which makes them harder to read than mixed-case. But I digress.

Yes--when we've done books/plays from "Final Draft," we ran into all those issues. (Plus the horror of the multi-column stuff for people speaking simultaneously, but I digress.)

I was going to mention Courier, myself. I think it's a suitable font for the purpose, BUT, not if you're going with all-caps or smallcaps. Like Dag, (yes, I know it's not Dag, it's dgatwood..), I find all caps courier hard to read.

FWIW.

Hitch

mmat1 · 01-10-2016, 11:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GrannyGrump

Thoughts?

I browsed through the thread and I don't see any sample, which looks good (in my eyes).

I think, it's not a good idea, to mix fonts which are not designed to work together (i. e. mixing Courier with Times). The size an weight of the characters is always different.

As you can see at your own sample, fake small caps on a larger text don't look very good, as the lower-case letters don't have the same weight.

For me, the only solution seems to be to define a body-font and add the different styles from this font-family only.

Maybe you should create one or two samples this way and compare them ...

JSWolf · 01-11-2016, 04:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hitch

Hmph. I'll see if I can dig up a book with it, and slap it on my PPW/Voyages. Not today--still recovering from the accursed email problems (in two bloody directions, for the love of heaven!), but hopefully this weekend sometime, if I get some time off.

Hitch

Thanks. I am interested in how it looks on eInk as is.

JSWolf · 01-11-2016, 04:14 AM

Here is Fontin_Sans with a small-caps version. I've added some weight to this so it should look good on eInk.

http://we.tl/FL0CqbDGWD <-- will expire in seven days

rubeus · 01-11-2016, 05:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JSWolf

That will simulate smallcaps. You just Smallcaps

Better: SMALLCAPS

JSWolf · 01-11-2016, 06:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rubeus

Better: SMALLCAPS

Thanks for catching my mistake.

dgatwood · 01-12-2016, 03:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hitch

Yes--when we've done books/plays from "Final Draft," we ran into all those issues. (Plus the horror of the multi-column stuff for people speaking simultaneously, but I digress.)

I was going to mention Courier, myself. I think it's a suitable font for the purpose, BUT, not if you're going with all-caps or smallcaps. Like Dag, (yes, I know it's not Dag, it's dgatwood..), I find all caps courier hard to read.

My middle name actually does start with an A, FWIW.

And don't get me started on Final Draft....

I would definitely pick a single font for all of your script content. For maximum visual impact, it should probably be a monospace font, though that isn't strictly necessary. (I've stopped using monospace fonts for scripts, personally, because they're so much harder to read.)

You might try the Deja Vu font. It's similar to Menlo, the font that Apple uses for its code editing, and despite being a sans-serif font, is more readable than Courier, IMO.

GrannyGrump · 01-12-2016, 09:18 AM

@ JSWolf --- many many thanks for the heavier Fontin. If you ever decide to do the serif version, that would be TRIPLE wonderful.

@Hitch -- I'm personally quite unfond of Courier, and use Monaco or BP Mono for coding. I am considering looking for a typewriter clone for these books, but....

@dgatwood -- I will give Deja Vu a try. But I must say, I am starting to lean more and more to just using the body font, and let it go at that. Readability trumps authenticity, in my mind.

I have struck 4 or 5 of these parodies so far, and they are all laid out differently, and only one of them looks anything like an actual screenplay. So still, my major task is finding a better way to format complete paragraphs of dialog. If I am not going to try to be "authentic," the borders might be a fairly good way to go. I don't like the look of small-caps or all-caps, so it's good that they aren't "authentic."

I am getting incoherent, it is time to go home and sleep.

JSWolf · 01-12-2016, 09:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GrannyGrump

@ JSWolf --- many many thanks for the heavier Fontin. If you ever decide to do the serif version, that would be TRIPLE wonderful.

I'll have a look at the serif version and see what I can do.

GrannyGrump · 01-13-2016, 04:50 AM

@JSWolf --- Hope you do, I look forward to it.

----------------------
Well, I fiddled a bit with a monospace font ("Verily Serif Mono"), and made some more screen shots.

I think body font is much more readable.

Do you think the borders is a usable idea? Or is it "too much"?

JSWolf · 01-13-2016, 05:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GrannyGrump

@JSWolf --- Hope you do, I look forward to it.

I had a look at Fontin and it only has a regular smallcap. If that's OK, I'll go ahead and up the weight for you.

Quote:

Well, I fiddled a bit with a monospace font ("Verily Serif Mono"), and made some more screen shots.

I think body font is much more readable.

Do you think the borders is a usable idea? Or is it "too much"?

I don't like the look of Verify Serif Mono. I actually prefer Courier.

Jellby · 01-13-2016, 06:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GrannyGrump

Do you think the borders is a usable idea? Or is it "too much"?

Actually, I think the borders are enough, no special font needed.

Hitch · 01-13-2016, 09:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GrannyGrump

@ JSWolf --- many many thanks for the heavier Fontin. If you ever decide to do the serif version, that would be TRIPLE wonderful.

@Hitch -- I'm personally quite unfond of Courier, and use Monaco or BP Mono for coding. I am considering looking for a typewriter clone for these books, but....

I don't blame you. I've never liked it. It is, however, usually supported on most e-readers, I think, or at least, if it isn't, a monospaced font is. I was trying to think of something easier or less brain-damaging than embedding the font.

Quote:

@dgatwood -- I will give Deja Vu a try. But I must say, I am starting to lean more and more to just using the body font, and let it go at that. Readability trumps authenticity, in my mind.

Indeed.

Quote:

I have struck 4 or 5 of these parodies so far, and they are all laid out differently, and only one of them looks anything like an actual screenplay. So still, my major task is finding a better way to format complete paragraphs of dialog. If I am not going to try to be "authentic," the borders might be a fairly good way to go. I don't like the look of small-caps or all-caps, so it's good that they aren't "authentic."

I am getting incoherent, it is time to go home and sleep.

I think all that matters, really, is conveying the idea of the layout or format, and readability, FWIW.

Hitch

01-13-2016, 04:50 AM	#42
GrannyGrump Obsessively Dedicated... Posts: 3,213 Karma: 34984682 Join Date: May 2011 Location: JAPAN (US expatriate) Device: Sony PRS-T2, ADE on PC	@JSWolf --- Hope you do, I look forward to it. ---------------------- Well, I fiddled a bit with a monospace font ("Verily Serif Mono"), and made some more screen shots. I think body font is much more readable. Do you think the borders is a usable idea? Or is it "too much"? Attached Thumbnails

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01-10-2016, 12:16 AM	#32
dgatwood Curmudgeon Posts: 629 Karma: 1623086 Join Date: Jan 2012 Device: iPad, iPhone, Nook Simple Touch	As someone who has worked with scripts in the past, I would replace them with normal CAPS. In TV and movie scripts, character names are invariably in all caps wherever they appear, as are camera motions, transitions, etc. Other things like names of props, stage directions, etc. may be in all caps, depending on their importance and possibly depending on who the script is intended for. (For example, a script printed for the prop people might have names of props that need to be on stage in all caps, but this isn't needed in the copy for an actor.) The details vary widely, of course. There's nothing approaching a standard, as far as I know. If you have entire paragraphs in all caps, that's very unusual unless maybe it is a stage direction, and even then, it seems a little unusual to me, because all caps makes text harder to read. Then again, that was my #1 gripe about teleprompters—most display text in all caps, which makes them harder to read than mixed-case. But I digress.

01-11-2016, 04:14 AM	#36
JSWolf Resident Curmudgeon Posts: 79,466 Karma: 145863170 Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Roslindale, Massachusetts Device: Kobo Libra 2, Kobo Aura H2O, PRS-650, PRS-T1, nook STR, PW3	Here is Fontin_Sans with a small-caps version. I've added some weight to this so it should look good on eInk. http://we.tl/FL0CqbDGWD <-- will expire in seven days

01-12-2016, 09:18 AM	#40
GrannyGrump Obsessively Dedicated... Posts: 3,213 Karma: 34984682 Join Date: May 2011 Location: JAPAN (US expatriate) Device: Sony PRS-T2, ADE on PC	@ JSWolf --- many many thanks for the heavier Fontin. If you ever decide to do the serif version, that would be TRIPLE wonderful. @Hitch -- I'm personally quite unfond of Courier, and use Monaco or BP Mono for coding. I am considering looking for a typewriter clone for these books, but.... @dgatwood -- I will give Deja Vu a try. But I must say, I am starting to lean more and more to just using the body font, and let it go at that. Readability trumps authenticity, in my mind. I have struck 4 or 5 of these parodies so far, and they are all laid out differently, and only one of them looks anything like an actual screenplay. So still, my major task is finding a better way to format complete paragraphs of dialog. If I am not going to try to be "authentic," the borders might be a fairly good way to go. I don't like the look of small-caps or all-caps, so it's good that they aren't "authentic." I am getting incoherent, it is time to go home and sleep.

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