Mechanical Keyboards

[CRussel]

Hitch -- as a long time pounder, and serious typist, let me suggest that if you can find a keyboard that uses Alps keys, you're going to be much happier in the long run. I know they're not made any more, but there are good clones of them, such as are used on the Matias. Nothing against Cherry keys, they're WAY better than some of the other c*** out there, but their feel and durability just isn't up to an Alps key.

As for click -- ideally it shouldn't be too loud, but honestly, I'm more concerned about getting a key that feels right and lets my hands and wrists survive. That means some level of click.

[incumbent]

Originally Posted by gmw

Thanks for the info.

Hmmm... I wonder how many sales we just made for Microsoft. It's a shame, because the main keyboard is, other other than the top line of keys and palm-wrest, a reasonable compromise between between the current fad for paper-thin keyboards and something usable - along with being more reasonably priced than these other options we are talking about.

I see Matias make the same mistake (for my use) as most others, of dedicating keys to cut, copy and paste - I never use them (my fingers are already programmed for Ctrl+x etc.) - so they are a complete waste for me. I'd say the home/end/page keys could take some getting used to, but that goes for pretty much any keyboard that's not completely standard. That Ctrl key next to the N is a bit odd.

What about this cable between the two halves? It looks a bit flimsy - but unlike the Kinesis it looks like it unplugs, and maybe that will make it less likely to break if something knocks half the keyboard off the desk?

The nice thing about those keys is that they're easily remap-able. I use Karabiner to handle various keybind conveniences on OS X but I imagine something like AutoHotKey would be able to do do some cool stuff with them.

I promptly remapped thosekeys, made Caps Lock into a Control key, and loaded a profile to let me activate one-handed mode —*Matias makes a *very expensive* one-handed keyboard that is quite nice but I wasn't about to drop that much coin on something when I don't require it for usability purposes. So I made my Matias Ergo work like one (holding down Space activates a flipped QWERTY in a mirror image of the other side, which sounds really daunting until you use it and realize it's pretty simple to figure out. won't win any speed records but I have a 2 month old and I'm on partial parental leave and working part time from home remotely so one-handed ANYTHING is a productivity boost for me )

The control key near the 'N' is amazing. I mapped it to 'Esc' because, again, UNIX dork and I use vim a lot and having access to control on Caps Lock and that aux Escape key is a life saver. The Matias Ergo's native Escape key is parked high to the left and it's a long trip that sometimes involves me hitting '`' instead.

The connecting cord is retractable and similar to a headphone cord. It is secure when plugged in but would likely pull out in a knocking-sht-off-my-desk incident but really it's designed to be easy to take with you when you pack up the keyboard. The main interface is a standard micro USB and the USB ports on the keyboard are all on the right-half. The little tether doesn't impact n-key rollover or any other critical functions either and like I said before it's adjustable. I don't know anything about the pinout or how it's wired, it's entirely possible you could make your own that was more suitable or rigid. The cable itself is flattened and spools via the retractor. Max length is probably 12" on either side. I usually have my keyboard halves about 4-6 inches apart but if I'm doing photo editing I sometimes put a tablet between the halves or a notebook when writing, so I really like having the option of closer together or further apart —*I don't have any medical conditions that mandate certain distance or wrist placement.

I leave the gels attached and I type tented forward or completely flat. I raise the front of the keyboard up for comfort when tenting it like that but find it comfortable even when the tent levers are retracted.

The gel pad wrist rests are screwed to the halves but are built to be removed or added back on. Pardon my smartphone illustration:

[Image violates Posting Guidelines for size]

[incumbent]

Originally Posted by CRussel

Hitch -- as a long time pounder, and serious typist, let me suggest that if you can find a keyboard that uses Alps keys, you're going to be much happier in the long run. I know they're not made any more, but there are good clones of them, such as are used on the Matias. Nothing against Cherry keys, they're WAY better than some of the other c*** out there, but their feel and durability just isn't up to an Alps key.

As for click -- ideally it shouldn't be too loud, but honestly, I'm more concerned about getting a key that feels right and lets my hands and wrists survive. That means some level of click.

I agree completely. The Alps-alike in the Matias keyboards is quite good. The Ergo I bought uses "Quiet" switches and they still feel great. I'll mic my typing for a moment with a short video or something for a demo, don't mind the baby grumping in the background.

Flickr is processing the video now, just did a little b&w video with my iPhone but a proper microphone attached so you can get an idea.

keyboarding
— on Flickr

[Hitch]

Originally Posted by CRussel

Hitch -- as a long time pounder, and serious typist, let me suggest that if you can find a keyboard that uses Alps keys, you're going to be much happier in the long run. I know they're not made any more, but there are good clones of them, such as are used on the Matias. Nothing against Cherry keys, they're WAY better than some of the other c*** out there, but their feel and durability just isn't up to an Alps key.

As for click -- ideally it shouldn't be too loud, but honestly, I'm more concerned about getting a key that feels right and lets my hands and wrists survive. That means some level of click.

Charlie:

I'll definitely look into it. One of the "issues" for me with the small boards is that I use the number keys ALL. THE. TIME. For my admin stuff. Estimates, Quotes, invoices, accounting. Using the number keys that are in different places might drive me bonk--more bonk than usual--but I'm going to go look.

Hitch

[incumbent]

FWIW I'm still getting comfortable without a dedicated 10-key. I guess you could always use the one Microsoft supplies with their keyboard

I'm probably not as fast as an accountant on 10-key but I spent a year working in a credit card customer service center when I was in high school and I got damned fast with it. I still use it by default when keying in ip addresses —*the subtle irony that the one thing ipv6 makes easier for me is typing in numeric addresses uses less numbers and requires a ':' instead of a '.'

[Tex2002ans]

Originally Posted by Hitch

A savage from the old days? SHEESH!

Originally Posted by Hitch

To be fair, it's also true that I'm not typing in a vacuum. There are other people in the vicinity. Between my pounding AND "clicky-clicky" for some 300 emails a day, (some are primarily click for a macro, click to type a sig, click send, but still)...too much clicky-clicky might drive the Natives bonkers.

This is why they have all different types of Mechanical Switches. One of the things I find fascinating about Mechanicals is all of the customization/choice you have.

A few of the different MX color switches are covered here (with fancy GIFs to show you how the insides work):

http://www.daskeyboard.com/blog/mech...e/#keyswitches

MX Blues are the loudest, and they are very "clicky clicky". They are the best to type on because you need much less force to press the buttons down (better on your fingers/hands), and you get that distinct "feel" when you press the button.

MX Browns are also great for typing. These make much less noise (mine are QUITE quiet... although I am a very light typist), and also give you a distinct "feel" when you press the button.

MX Reds and MX Blacks are more for "gaming", because there is a smoother pressure while pressing down (no distinct "bump"). And these are quiet.

I am telling you, MX Browns would probably work great for you. Not so loud, still great on the fingers for typing... and these mechanical beasts will last a very long time compared to those rubber domes.

Side Note: Or if anyone prefers video, here is a quick explanation of a few different types of Mechanical Switches:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PXCKHoiNu1o

Originally Posted by CRussel

As for click -- ideally it shouldn't be too loud, but honestly, I'm more concerned about getting a key that feels right and lets my hands and wrists survive. That means some level of click.

Speaking of wrist rests, I don't know the fascination with the wrist rests built into the keyboards themselves. If I cared that much about them, I would most likely invest in a separate wrist rest.

Again, I will defer to the Mechanical Keyboards subreddit (which has a lot more info than me):

https://www.reddit.com/r/MechanicalK...ki/wrist_rests

Originally Posted by Hitch

One of the "issues" for me with the small boards is that I use the number keys ALL. THE. TIME. For my admin stuff. Estimates, Quotes, invoices, accounting. Using the number keys that are in different places might drive me bonk--more bonk than usual--but I'm going to go look.

You can just buy a separate Mechanical Numpad if you need it. For example, here is the Filco Majestouch TenKeyPad (FKB22MB) (MX Browns):

http://www.amazon.com/Filco-Majestou.../dp/B000MGBPNI

I assume you are making your job MUCH harder to have ergonomic, while at the same time having a full keyboard with Numpad functionality. Sort of the unicorn which doesn't exist: ergonomic, AND quiet, AND numpad, AND wrist rest, AND cat-proof, AND matches Microsoft's ergonomic keyboard layouts, AND will deliver your firstborn son.

And again, for more info, the Mechanical Keyboards subreddit on all different Numpads:

https://www.reddit.com/r/MechanicalK...s/wiki/numpads

Originally Posted by gmw

Hmmm... I wonder how many sales we just made for Microsoft.

Hopefully zero.

Nobody wants that trash! Go Mechanical or go home!

Originally Posted by gmw

It looks a bit flimsy - but unlike the Kinesis it looks like it unplugs, and maybe that will make it less likely to break if something knocks half the keyboard off the desk?

... I doubt anybody would be knocking these keyboards off the desk. Mechanicals weigh a ton.

Originally Posted by incumbent

I'm probably not as fast as an accountant on 10-key but I spent a year working in a credit card customer service center when I was in high school and I got damned fast with it. I still use it by default when keying in ip addresses [...]

Yeah, I too learned during high school how to use the numpad, and I default to it all the time when having to type in numbers. It is definitely one of my "Must Haves", and I don't know if I would be able to get a keyboard without it! (Although again, if I really needed it, I would purchase a dedicated Mechanical Numpad).

[gmw]

Originally Posted by incumbent

The nice thing about those keys is that they're easily remap-able. I use Karabiner to handle various keybind conveniences on OS X but I imagine something like AutoHotKey would be able to do do some cool stuff with them.[...] [...]

I'm a big user of virtual machines, this presents a problem with something like AutoHotKey (which, incidentally, I do use for remapping the MS mousewheel left/right, but when that doesn't work in a particular VM it's not a big deal, however it would be very disconcerting to have the keys change from VM to VM). There are ways to deal with this, but we're talking quite a lot of mucking around. It's one reason why that Truly Ergonomic keyboard (and some others) is interesting - being able to program the keyboard itself.

Thanks for the details about the palm rest and joining cables on the Matias.

Originally Posted by Tex2002ans

[...]
Speaking of wrist rests, I don't know the fascination with the wrist rests built into the keyboards themselves. If I cared that much about them, I would most likely invest in a separate wrist rest.
[...]
You can just buy a separate Mechanical Numpad if you need it. For example, here is the Filco Majestouch TenKeyPad (FKB22MB) (MX Browns):
[...]
... I doubt anybody would be knocking these keyboards off the desk. Mechanicals weigh a ton.
[...]

Notice what's happening here: We're going from a single keyboard that is easily lifted out of the way (or turned upside-down to empty the detritus), to (potentially) 2 loosely joined halves, a separate numeric keypad and separate palm-rest, with cables joining them wonderful ways. And there's probably a mouse sitting in here somewhere too. The whole thing is becoming a mess.

Now sure, my keyboard doesn't get moved around that much, but it does get moved around. With the dogs, paperwork, and life, there aren't too many days when the keyboard doesn't get moved about at least a little. It's one of the things I found annoying with the Kinesis (although the new Bluetooth option would get rid of one keyboard cable). On the "plus" side, spending time arranging and rearranging all your little devices is a very convenient form of procrastination and distraction - which every writer needs .

So somewhere in all this has to come a point where practical convenience starts to impact the choice - or we'll end up with a 104 separate little keyboards sitting on the desk so we can get exactly the right configuration for maybe two seconds of each day.

[incumbent]

Originally Posted by gmw

So somewhere in all this has to come a point where practical convenience starts to impact the choice - or we'll end up with a 104 separate little keyboards sitting on the desk so we can get exactly the right configuration for maybe two seconds of each day.

I actually kind of crave that separation because with it comes a lot of agnosticism about what you are inputting *into*. e.g. Having peripherals that do different tasks and are interchangeable and can be directed to whatever device/display/task you are doing is kind of liberating. The keyboard always feels like an anachronism to me —*I'm very competent as a typist at over 100wpm since I was a kid but yet I still think computing in the traditional way is dead meat.

But to really make you rage out, surely you've seen the Palette peripherals block system Adobe is investing in?

http://palettegear.com/

[gmw]

Originally Posted by incumbent

I actually kind of crave that separation because with it comes a lot of agnosticism about what you are inputting *into*. e.g. Having peripherals that do different tasks and are interchangeable and can be directed to whatever device/display/task you are doing is kind of liberating. The keyboard always feels like an anachronism to me —*I'm very competent as a typist at over 100wpm since I was a kid but yet I still think computing in the traditional way is dead meat.

But to really make you rage out, surely you've seen the Palette peripherals block system Adobe is investing in?

http://palettegear.com/

I've not had much success with voice input (but it has been years since I gave it a serious try). It would be very hard to change the habit of typing my thoughts; I'd be very self-conscious about trying to speak them aloud. It's also hard to envisage how to deal with the constant correction/re-typing that I do with most of my writing (even this post) *. Perhaps some sort of signing system could replace typing - that could be interesting, though I imagine it would be a steep learning curve.

I think I'd read about the Palette system but had not taken much notice. Just had a look at the link you provide. Neat! The geek in me really wants a set to play with, they can sit next to the soldering iron and collection of resisters and capacitors (etc.) in the cupboard. Yes, I can see they don't need soldering, but they fit the same type of thinking, it seems to me. If you think the keyboard is an anachronism, what must you think of the Palette system? There's nothing there that couldn't be done better and more flexibly with a combined touch-screen-tablet device (if you aren't going to do it on the main work screen itself).


* I am reminded of a short story by Ted Chiang, see the first of the quotes I posted to MR some time ago here.

[Dr. Drib]

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[crich70]

This is my little keyboard for the Kindle Fire. I hope it isn't too large.

[gmw]

Originally Posted by crich70

This is my little keyboard for the Kindle Fire. I hope it isn't too large.

It's cute ... but my hands/wrists would seize-up within an hour of any serious use. Take a hacksaw to it and split it down the middle and I'll take another look.

[crich70]

Originally Posted by gmw

It's cute ... but my hands/wrists would seize-up within an hour of any serious use. Take a hacksaw to it and split it down the middle and I'll take another look.

Lol. The part about being large was in reference to the image file. The keyboard is just a bit bigger than the Kindle Fire is.

[mr ploppy]

Until very recently I was using this, which I've had since about 1988:

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?f...type=3&theater

[crich70]

Originally Posted by mr ploppy

Until very recently I was using this, which I've had since about 1988:

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?f...type=3&theater

They built things to last in the past.