Fraud?

[Barbara1955]

What is the Price in USDollars? Right now Amazon on the US Site is selling the PW2 for $110... While the PW3 is $119. Not much difference in price. Not sure why Sams Is even selling an Amazon Product since them & Target said they never would.

[howyoudoin]

Originally Posted by patrickt

The manager I talked to said it was a Paperwhite. She had no idea there was more than one. Most people don't.

That's just ignorance on their part.

There's a well known store here that is similar. Only difference being that they charge the appropriate rate for the older model. Their salesmen have always been ignorant of the new models when I've asked them, but I figure so long as they're not charging new-model-rates for the older model, it's passable.

In India we have the MRP system. The manufacturer is supposed to stamp a Maximum Retail Price onto every product, and no store is legally allowed to charge higher than that.

Does Mexico have something similar? If so that would be fraud.

[eschwartz]

Originally Posted by patrickt

The manager I talked to said it was a Paperwhite. She had no idea there was more than one. Most people don't.

In other words, the only factor here is the astounding incompetence of the average Sam's Club employee?

The fact that people don't bother to research their purchases does not make it illegal to charge arbitrary or ludicrous prices.



Numerous pieces of consumer technology come in multiply-updated models. It is not entirely unlike buying an "iPhone" and getting upset when it turns out you paid $700 for the iPhone 3G...
Although a better comparison would be buying an "iPhone" and complaining when it turned out to be the iPhone 5S instead of the iPhone 6.

[Cinisajoy]

Originally Posted by patrickt

The manager I talked to said it was a Paperwhite. She had no idea there was more than one. Most people don't.

I the question about returning a Kindle for a refund was directed at me, I have no idea what you're talking about.

I was assuming you bought the Paperwhite, took it home and found it that it was a Paperwhite 2.

[darryl]

@patrickt. This is almost a textbook case of Caveat Emptor. I suspect you may be very disappointed when you go back. The buyer retains some responsibility to do their homework. even in the most maternal of our Nanny States. There is no misleading or deceptive conduct here on the part of the retailer, unless, as you seem to believe, the price itself constitutes a representation that it is the very latest model. This is simply not the case anywhere in the world that I know of. You also seem to have the belief that the retailer has probably obtained old stock at a substantial discount from Amazon, and that this windfall should have been passed on to the consumer. Once again, this is an obligation that I haven't heard of being imposed anywhere in the world.

Consumer protection laws have come a long way, IMHO too far in some countries. However, buyers are left with some responsibilities even in those jursisdictions with draconian consumer protection laws.

[Fbone]

Originally Posted by HarryT

What specific law are you referring to? To the best of my knowledge, unless you're in a monopoly situation (which is clearly not the case here) a retailer is free to set any price they wish for any product, just as a customer is free to choose whether or not to buy it.

This isn't true in the US. Many vendors (Amazon included) set the retail prices and the retailers cannot deviate from it except under certain exceptions as specified in the sales contracts.

[eschwartz]

Originally Posted by Fbone

This isn't true in the US. Many vendors (Amazon included) set the retail prices and the retailers cannot deviate from it except under certain exceptions as specified in the sales contracts.

Irrelevant.

That would become a contract violation, not a consumer fraud violation.

[Fbone]

Originally Posted by eschwartz

Irrelevant.

That would become a contract violation, not a consumer fraud violation.

Your post is irrelevant.

I was only commenting on the bolded sentence in Harry's post and not the OP.

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by Cinisajoy

I was assuming you bought the Paperwhite, took it home and found it that it was a Paperwhite 2.

Well, then you'd be wrong.

I was one of the few people who could look at the device and say, "That's not a Paperwhite 3. The folks in this thread who think people who can't do that are ignorant are ignorant.

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by patrickt

Well, then you'd be wrong.

I was one of the few people who could look at the device and say, "That's not a Paperwhite 3. The folks in this thread who think people who can't do that are ignorant are ignorant.

Patrick,

Was this device falsely advertised? Did it claim to be something that it was not? If the answer to those questions is "no", I see no basis for your assertion that the device was being sold fraudulently. How does Mexican law define the term "fraud"?

[patrickt]

The price in dollars is irrelevant. It is exactly the same price at Sam's Club for a Paperwhite 2 as the price for a Paperwhite 3 on Amazon.com.mx.

The "buyer beware" nonsense is classic blaming the victim. A device is marketed by Amazon as a Paperwhite. They only distinguish the models when they're selling one of the older ones. To the public, it's just a Paperwhite. I know the difference and some of the elite snobs know the difference and blame people who don't know the difference for being ignorant.

I apologize for using the word fraud in the title. It is no legal violation. It is unethical which isn't something that interests most people. Let the buyer beware and whatever you can get away with is fine.

I'm done. I will come back and mention whether or not Sam's Club reduces the price. I sincerely hope they do.

[HarryT]

Patrick,

In all the "consumer electronics" stores around me, if a new model of, let's say, an Android tablet is released, the stores will continue to sell the old model at the old price until they receive stock of the new model. It really is a common retail practice, at least in the UK.

[dickloraine]

And then there is amazon, where there is a helpfull message that says: "There is a new model available" with a link to the newer model. Amazon does this on many products.

Aren't retail stores always saying that the big plus for buying from them is that they have employees that can inform and help you? If they can't or don't know there products, thats bad.

So it is smart business to not do things like this, even if it is not illegal or intended. I surely wouldn't buy again in the shop.

[darryl]

Originally Posted by patrickt

The price in dollars is irrelevant. It is exactly the same price at Sam's Club for a Paperwhite 2 as the price for a Paperwhite 3 on Amazon.com.mx.

The "buyer beware" nonsense is class blaming the victim. A device is marketed by Amazon as a Paperwhite. They only distinguish the models when they're selling one of the older ones. To the public, it's just a Paperwhite. I know the difference and some of the elite snobs know the difference and blame people who don't know the difference.

I apologize for using the word fraud in the title. It is no legal violation. It is unethical which isn't something that interests most people. Let the buyer beware and whatever you can get away with is fine.

I'm done. I will come back and mention whether or not Sam's Club reduces the price. I sincerely hope they do.

@patrickt. The buyer has to take some responsibility. It is called being an adult. Here we have absolutely no representation that this is a Paperwhite 3. You seem to infer some such representation from the price alone, which is not that much different in any event. So you can buy a Paperwhite 3 online for the same price. I don't know what world you are living in but there are many many retailers who won't match online prices for various reasons, including the costs of the physical store including the staff who took time to listen to your complaint. There is nothing either illegal or unethical going on here.

Finally, phrases like "buyer beware nonsense" and words like class, victim, elite and snobs are not appropriate in this context. I for one am not interested in your politics or ideology. Mobileread has separate forums for politics which you are welcome to opt-in and post to.

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by darryl

@patrickt. The buyer has to take some responsibility. It is called being an adult. Here we have absolutely no representation that this is a Paperwhite 3. You seem to infer some such representation from the price alone, which is not that much different in any event. So you can buy a Paperwhite 3 online for the same price. I don't know what world you are living in but there are many many retailers who won't match online prices for various reasons, including the costs of the physical store including the staff who took time to listen to your complaint. There is nothing either illegal or unethical going on here.

Finally, phrases like "buyer beware nonsense" and words like class, victim, elite and snobs are not appropriate in this context. I for one am not interested in your politics or ideology. Mobileread has separate forums for politics which you are welcome to opt-in and post to.

I understand. This isn't a forum for ethics and the topic wouldn't interest you. And, I really do understand. It's your responsibility and no one should trust anyone. If you do trust someone and get taken, it's your fault.

Apparently some don't understand the concept of the nanny state either. Expecting honesty, ethical behavior, and good customer service has nothing to do with a nanny state, does it? It has nothing to do with an unethical world that some prefer to live in.

So, I was according to some foolish to talk to management at Sam's Club. But, if they don't drop the price, I will send a message to Amazon.com.mx and see how they react. Then a message to Amazom.com in the U .S. Then, I suppose, Jeff Bezos. I have the impression he is farily decent and honest. But, if I'm wrong, it's my fault.

I am so ignorant, that when I get a book with lots of errors and poor formatting I not only notify Amazon, and expect them to do something, I notify the publisher, who I don't really expect to do anything. Foolish me.