CC Cloud

[cybmole]

Originally Posted by chaley

The amazon version is already special for several reasons, and this would be just one more.

well now I have to say I'm curious

is the amazon store version "special" in some way that affects the end user experience, or just special in that you had to do different under-the-bonnet- stuff to get it to play nice with amazon's world ?

[Thomas_AR]

Very interesting feature. I am using Dropbox for my Calibre database.
If you need a tester, I can do so. I sent you a PM with info of my Google play account.

[chaley]

Originally Posted by cybmole

well now I have to say I'm curious

is the amazon store version "special" in some way that affects the end user experience, or just special in that you had to do different under-the-bonnet- stuff to get it to play nice with amazon's world ?

Both. Some of the differences are:

• The biggest difference is licensing. Google Play lets us give wiggle room, checking the license when we think we must. That is how we offer licensing of child accounts and one-time license checks. I have no idea what Amazon ("it" below) does, but in any event we have no control over it.
• It does different things with default directories.
• It does not offer upload to Google Books.
• It knows that it can of-sorts talk to the native reader instead of the brain-dead K4A.
• Widget handling is disabled (mostly) on Kindle devices.
• The defaults for accepted formats change to include more of the Amazon formats.

[chaley]

Originally Posted by Thomas_AR

Very interesting feature. I am using Dropbox for my Calibre database.
If you need a tester, I can do so. I sent you a PM with info of my Google play account.

I received your PM and will do the setup before I go to testing. Thanks!

[kaufman]

Sorry about not responding sooner, I have recently moved and am still unpacking.

If you are keeping track of counts, you can add me to the list of people who only use dropbox. I obviously don't mind if you support others, but I won't use any others.

Originally Posted by chaley

[*]Searching is extraordinarily slow, 3 to 5 books per second. Is searching really required, given that you will be able to navigate the item hierarchy just as you can in the current content server interface?[/LIST]

There is one particular search that I think is a fairly common use case, that might be useful for a lot of people.

"Show me a list of books in my Calibre library that are not on my device".

This would be useful for people like me who like to keep their entire database loaded, but it would also be useful for people who are looking for something new to read.

A subset of this search might be:

"Show me a list of books in my Calibre library that have been added/updated since my last connection".

If you can do one of these two searches quickly, it might be very helpful for some people.

Originally Posted by BetterRed

@chaley - I do some work for a law practice, some of the partners use Calibre/CC. Dropbox for Business (D4B) is integral to some of the practice's Line of Business systems, so they would prefer anything but Dropbox.

Their main concerns are that it won't 'interfere' with the D4B account, and that CC will continue to work as it does now. We've found that some Dropbox 'enabled' apps don't play nicely in this D4B installation, so we're somewhat wary of them.

That's interesting. I also use dropbox for business, and except for one android file management app that had trouble if you linked to both accounts, I have never had any issues with any dropbox apps. Which apps have given you trouble, and what sorts of trouble have you had?

Originally Posted by chaley

Do any of you have an opinion on how often I should check if covers have changed? I can see any of

1. every time the cover is accessed
2. the first time after "CC Cloud" (whatever it is called) is started
3. every so often (once per hour, once per day)
4. every time the user looks at book details
5. only the first time the cover is shown

Another factor: things can get messy if the user is simultaneously changing the library with calibre and using CC Cloud.

I would say 2 is fine, but it probably doesn't hurt to do 4 as well.

I think the simultaneous use use-case is obscure enough that you can ignore it. Since you aren't writing to the database, you can't cause corruption, which would be the only real concern.

[chaley]

Originally Posted by kaufman

There is one particular search that I think is a fairly common use case, that might be useful for a lot of people.

"Show me a list of books in my Calibre library that are not on my device".

This would be useful for people like me who like to keep their entire database loaded, but it would also be useful for people who are looking for something new to read.

Before commenting on the above, some real numbers. The full search (calibre syntax) runs at between 10 and 20 books per second, depending on the complexity of the custom column setup and the speed of the device's processor. Long-press search (as in CC's grouping drawer) is nearly instantaneous.

OK, to the "not on device" search. It can be done efficiently as long as we mean "any format of the book is on the device", not "some specific format". I will look at it. I think all I need to do is compare two sets of book UUIDs. At the moment the biggest problem I have is how the user would ask for it since there aren't any buttons left in the search dialog. Probably a text link would be best. Or it could be put into the menu, but that is strange.

A subset of this search might be:

"Show me a list of books in my Calibre library that have been added/updated since my last connection".

If by "updated" you mean the book file itself has changed then it isn't practical. The update time of the book is not in calibre's database. It is in the cloud but it takes *forever* to get the info, up to a half second on dropbox. If you mean that the book metadata has changed then it is possible, but one cannot do much with that information. Metadata from the cloud does not include composite custom column values because these are not stored in calibre's database. I am not happy about providing a function that could take information away until the next wireless connect, especially when the next wireless connect would do the job properly.

That's interesting. I also use dropbox for business, and except for one android file management app that had trouble if you linked to both accounts, I have never had any issues with any dropbox apps. Which apps have given you trouble, and what sorts of trouble have you had?

Note that I have no idea if CC will work with a dropbox for business account.

I would say 2 is fine, but it probably doesn't hurt to do 4 as well.

Today it is 2, 3 (every two hours) and semi-4 (if the cover isn't downloaded yet for some reason, try again).

[kaufman]

Originally Posted by chaley

OK, to the "not on device" search. It can be done efficiently as long as we mean "any format of the book is on the device", not "some specific format". I will look at it. I think all I need to do is compare two sets of book UUIDs. At the moment the biggest problem I have is how the user would ask for it since there aren't any buttons left in the search dialog. Probably a text link would be best. Or it could be put into the menu, but that is strange.

That's what I meant. I haven't seen the UI yet, but I will keep an eye open for what I might think might be useful.

2 Questions:

1) Will the UI support sorting of the cloud book list? If so, will Date (Calibre) be one of the supported sorts?
2) Will the UI give some indication as to whether a book is already on the device?

Originally Posted by chaley

Note that I have no idea if CC will work with a dropbox for business account.

Well, then that's the first thing I will test for you. I'm sure it will work fine. Like I said, I have never run into a program that didn't work exactly the same way with D4B. The only program that has ever had a problem, was because I had linked both my accounts (business and personal) to it at the same time.

[chaley]

Originally Posted by kaufman

1) Will the UI support sorting of the cloud book list? If so, will Date (Calibre) be one of the supported sorts?

That question confirms that you haven't ever used the content server interface. That interface is tree-structured, in effect combining CC's grouping and book list into one interface. It does not support specification of sorts. Calibre "pre-sorts" some categories before sending the information. For example, the "Newest" category is reverse-sorted by calibre's Date field (not last-modified). The Series categories are sorted by series-then-index. Authors is by author. The rest are by title. CC's cloud feature mimics this behavior.

The attachments in post 14 show what the interface looks like.

2) Will the UI give some indication as to whether a book is already on the device?

Books have a checkbox at the right that tells you if the book is on the device (in CC's library).

[Purple Lady]

Originally Posted by chaley

That question confirms that you haven't ever used the content server interface. That interface is tree-structured, in effect combining CC's grouping and book list into one interface. It does not support specification of sorts. Calibre "pre-sorts" some categories before sending the information. For example, the "Newest" category is reverse-sorted by calibre's Date field (not last-modified). The Series categories are sorted by series-then-index. Authors is by author. The rest are by title. CC's cloud feature mimics this behavior.

The attachments in post 14 show what the interface looks like.
Books have a checkbox at the right that tells you if the book is on the device (in CC's library).

Will CC Cloud show the Titles grouped by first letter? That's one thing I really dislike about the content server. If I am looking for a title I have to scroll through everything.

[chaley]

Originally Posted by Purple Lady

Will CC Cloud show the Titles grouped by first letter? That's one thing I really dislike about the content server. If I am looking for a title I have to scroll through everything.

There is an option that says to group by first letter if there are more than N items (books, tags, authors, what-have-you) in the list. This works for everything except "Latest" because first letter organization makes no sense for a list sorted by date.

[Purple Lady]

Originally Posted by chaley

There is an option that says to group by first letter if there are more than N items (books, tags, authors, what-have-you) in the list. This works for everything except "Latest" because first letter organization makes no sense for a list sorted by date.

Where do you set this option? For me series is grouped by first letter, but title is not.

[chaley]

Originally Posted by Purple Lady

Where do you set this option? For me series is grouped by first letter, but title is not.

It is an option for cc cloud. Cc has no control over what calibre sends to the content server connection.

[Purple Lady]

Originally Posted by chaley

It is an option for cc cloud. Cc has no control over what calibre sends to the content server connection.

So there's no Calibre setting for the Content server to do this? I always wondered why some were grouped by first letters and some not.

Edit: I just looked at the content server on a web page and it doesn't include title so I guess you can't set it.

[theducks]

Originally Posted by chaley

There is an option that says to group by first letter if there are more than N items (books, tags, authors, what-have-you) in the list. This works for everything except "Latest" because first letter organization makes no sense for a list sorted by date.

I will differ.

If you do a bulk update in Calibre, you can end up with a large quantity of affected books.
Looking at those by letter subset might be desirable

[kaufman]

Originally Posted by chaley

That question confirms that you haven't ever used the content server interface.

I would never lie about something so easy to check.

Originally Posted by chaley

For example, the "Newest" category is reverse-sorted by calibre's Date field (not last-modified).

Originally Posted by chaley

Books have a checkbox at the right that tells you if the book is on the device (in CC's library).

These two statements together mean that CC Cloud will do the main thing I am looking for. Thanks.