Rakuten Buys OverDrive

[DNSB]

Originally Posted by eschwartz

If you DeDRM your library loans you are a dirty thief.

I don't need to do the deDRM and format convert but I can sympathize with those who need to so in order to have the ability to read library books on their ereader of choice. Out of curiosity, why a dirty thief? Is there a stature requiring thieves to be less cleanly than the average person?

Originally Posted by eschwartz

And why does that even have the slightest marginal anything to do with people who read on Kindles?

Just pointing out that eInk ereaders are a small and diminishing percentage of the ebook reader market. If 94%+ of the market is able to read library loan ebooks, how much time and effort should be put into supporting that increasingly small minority? Have you seen the number of reports that in the US ereader sales peaked in 2011? That dedicated ereader sales in the US will drop to under 8 million in 2015?

Originally Posted by eschwartz

Because they might think (and there is no reason to think they would be wrong) that they will make more money by taking away one of the compelling attractions of a Kindle (direct library checkouts) and offering that as an exclusive Kobo advantage. Selling more Kobos makes them more money in the long run than selling library Kindlebooks.
They might one day actually try to make themselves known in the U.S....

Hmmm... last time I looked, Overdrive was more profitable than Kobo. As for Kobo, they seem to be the redheaded stepchild in Rakuten's family. Not to mention that Overdrive has more than library lending in their business portfolio.

Originally Posted by eschwartz

From my perspective, as a US Kindle owner, this is an ominous occurrence. I have every right to consider things as potentially bad insomuch as they might affect me that way.

You are more than welcome to consider anything you damn well want to be as good or bad as you like, I promise I won't stop you.

Nor would I ever think of stopping you from holding your beliefs. However, please note that that does not require me to support your beliefs nor to believe that any congruence between your beliefs and reality exists. As Ralph Eichelberger once put it, "Sure, you're entitled to your opinion, no matter how wrong you are." Admittedly, Harlan Ellison had a different opinion when he wrote ""You are not entitled to your opinion. You are entitled to your informed opinion. No one is entitled to be ignorant."

[rcentros]

Originally Posted by Soldim

That sound good for customers, two big eReader platforms with access to a large amount of content is better than having only amazon for sure.

I like OverDrive (mostly use it with my Kindles) and I have not been impressed by the way Rakuten runs Kobo -- so, at this point, I'm not personally seeing much upside to this purchase.

[eschwartz]

Originally Posted by DNSB

I don't need to do the deDRM and format convert but I can sympathize with those who need to so in order to have the ability to read library books on their ereader of choice.

Well, I would need to do so, and thus feel qualified to be opinionated on the matter. But, moving on...

The one and only place where DRM is acceptable and makes sense, is on library loans, in order to enforce time-based restrictions. If one does not have a reader that supports ADE EPUB, and the book is only available as such, it is nevertheless plain and simple theft, to DeDRM them -- because now you have an unlimited copy of a book you never purchased.

I have found this opinion to be predominant, actually I have found people who believe as you do to be rarer than the fabled truth on the internet.

Out of curiosity, why a dirty thief? Is there a stature requiring thieves to be less cleanly than the average person?

It is a figure of speech. Was that a really bad joke? Are you just a party-pooping literalist? Because idioms, metaphors, figures of speech etc. are a type of generally-accepted language construct that enhances day-to-day conversation... a concept I personally approve highly of.

Just pointing out that eInk ereaders are a small and diminishing percentage of the ebook reader market. If 94%+ of the market is able to read library loan ebooks, how much time and effort should be put into supporting that increasingly small minority? Have you seen the number of reports that in the US ereader sales peaked in 2011? That dedicated ereader sales in the US will drop to under 8 million in 2015?

So you agree that what you said did not in fact have anything whatsoever to do with what I said, and therefore you shouldn't have confused everyone by quoting me?

But wait... your original statement was in fact:

Originally Posted by DNSB

Only in the US. Here in BC, Canada, Kindle owners are already out in the cold when it comes to library books. Epub and PDF are the only two formats that seem to be supported for ereaders.

So I am starting to get REALLY confused as to what you are actually trying to say...

Nor would I ever think of stopping you from holding your beliefs. However, please note that that does not require me to support your beliefs nor to believe that any congruence between your beliefs and reality exists. As Ralph Eichelberger once put it, "Sure, you're entitled to your opinion, no matter how wrong you are." Admittedly, Harlan Ellison had a different opinion when he wrote ""You are not entitled to your opinion. You are entitled to your informed opinion. No one is entitled to be ignorant."

Wait, are you still living under the quite frankly insulting delusion that I believe the US is the center of the universe? Allow me to repeat: I do not believe the US is the center of the universe. I do however, have a valid right to be concerned in my own selfish way about anything that has the potential to cause me discomfort, even if overall more people benefit than lose out! This would be because I am not legally obligated to be self-sacrificing...

In this (theoretical) case, I am quite content to allow the minority of E-Ink readers, i.e. US Kindle owners, to benefit at the expense of the majority of E-Ink readers, i.e. world-wide owners of Kobo devices. ( )

What do beliefs have to do with it?

[hardcastle]

Rakuten making their library exclusive to Kobo devices and apps wouldn't get me to use their devices or apps. I appreciate the service that my local library offers, but I think I'm swimming in eBooks right now and I could do without if them.

That being said, I don't think Rakuten will do that. They might give some extra weight towards Kobo, but I don't think they'd take away support entirely.

[Rizla]

Originally Posted by fjtorres

Too much of Kobo's business model is about "we're not Amazon"...

I don't think that's fair. Kobo has consistently outpaced Kindles in hardware and software. Their front-light tech and customizable UI are superior to the Kindle. Kobo hasn't been able to penetrate the US and UK market because of Amazon's near total lock-down of the market. Hopefully that will change, but they'll have to get Kobos in stores and improve their CS to rival Amazon.

[rcentros]

Originally Posted by Rizla

I don't think that's fair. Kobo has consistently outpaced Kindles in hardware and software.

Kobo may have more features (on the reader itself) but Kindle's readers "just work." I've seen news (on these forums) of a lot more bugs and odd behavior with the Kobo readers. And Amazon's infrastructure (Send to Kindle, etc.) is superior -- as is their store. Last time I tried to buy from Kobo I ended up getting one of my credit cards locked for "attempted fraud" -- and other folks have had this issue.

I do agree that that Kobo seems to have figured out the lighted screen better (and earlier) than did Kindle.

[Rizla]

Originally Posted by rcentros

Kobo may have more features (on the reader itself) but Kindle's readers "just work." I've seen news (on these forums) of a lot more bugs and odd behavior with the Kobo readers. And Amazon's infrastructure (Send to Kindle, etc.) is superior -- as is their store. Last time I tried to buy from Kobo I ended up getting one of my credit cards locked for "attempted fraud" -- and other folks have had this issue.

I do agree that that Kobo seems to have figured out the lighted screen better (and earlier) than did Kindle.

Fair enough. I was thinking of Kobo's UI and its more open approach to customizing the reading experience (fonts, margins, etc). Possibly the Kindle is more stable because it so completely locks down its devices to any form of customization. Hopefully Kobo will soon release a device with the same screen as the Voyage, but with the superior Kobo lighting tech and with the existing Kobo viewing options. Buttons would be nice too

But Kobo customer support really does suck. Like Sony used to be.

[Rizla]

Originally Posted by DNSB

Nor would I ever think of stopping you from holding your beliefs. However, please note that that does not require me to support your beliefs nor to believe that any congruence between your beliefs and reality exists. As Ralph Eichelberger once put it, "Sure, you're entitled to your opinion, no matter how wrong you are." Admittedly, Harlan Ellison had a different opinion when he wrote ""You are not entitled to your opinion. You are entitled to your informed opinion. No one is entitled to be ignorant."

Well said.

[Sharkus]

This was, for me at least, something out of the blue. I personally think it's a good move.

I've only used OD a little in the past, but I do like it. I will admit I mainly obtained a library card so I could test out OD to see how it worked.

[hardcastle]

Originally Posted by DNSB

Nor would I ever think of stopping you from holding your beliefs. However, please note that that does not require me to support your beliefs nor to believe that any congruence between your beliefs and reality exists. As Ralph Eichelberger once put it, "Sure, you're entitled to your opinion, no matter how wrong you are." Admittedly, Harlan Ellison had a different opinion when he wrote ""You are not entitled to your opinion. You are entitled to your informed opinion. No one is entitled to be ignorant."

So then someone feeling displeased in some way that Rakuten potentially pulling Kindle books from Overdrive in the US would be an uninformed opinion?

It's not like we have any insight whatsoever into the minds at Rakuten to be throwing around such high-strung righteousness (a hilarious overreaction on a remarkably trivial topic to most of us here). We have no idea what Rakuten do or do not value, so that high horse of "reality" you ride so proudly seems to be a mighty short horse.

[murg]

There is no way that Rakuten is going to pull support for Kindles. Not only does it significantly reduce the level of contracted service being provided by Overdrive, in the US it will lock most patrons out of the library.

If they were to do this, Amazon would build a library service, under price Overdrive, and drive Overdrive out of business.

[thewitt]

I'm not really sure where the "pull support for Kindles" come from.

It's much more likely that Rakuten will make it EASIER to get books into Overdrive, and at the same time promote it's Kobo service to more and more authors.

OverDrive is making money today.

Kobo is currently not.

They won't jeopardize the revenue stream in OverDrive.

I can see a much closer integration of the two, but not a strategy that excludes Kindle owners.

[tubemonkey]

The key questions are:

• What percent of library ebooks are checked out in Kindle format?

• What percent of those ebooks are read on eink devices?

[rcentros]

Originally Posted by murg

There is no way that Rakuten is going to pull support for Kindles. Not only does it significantly reduce the level of contracted service being provided by Overdrive, in the US it will lock most patrons out of the library.

If they were to do this, Amazon would build a library service, under price Overdrive, and drive Overdrive out of business.

I'm not worried about them pulling support -- I'm worried about them making poor decisions, in management, or infrastructure or in new software. OverDrive works well at this point -- Kobo's market (and device software updates) don't always. (Of course that may be pure Kobo -- it's possible that Rakuten has left them alone.) Hopefully Rakuten leaves OverDrive's staff in place but I'm afraid that's probably not a realistic hope.

[thewitt]

I don't believe they have done anything with Kobo yet. They just recently named a new CEO