Disapearing CSS

[Turtle91]

Windows-8.1 64
Sigil 8.4 (can't remember if I used 64 on this...or if it's even available....I usually do )

Sometimes:
Firefox (32) - for those W3School references
Skype (32) - just in case someone wants to talk...
Dropbox (32) - because it's always freaking running!!! gah

and other miscellaneous system drivers

[Hitch]

Originally Posted by Turtle91

Windows-8.1 64
Sigil 8.4 (can't remember if I used 64 on this...or if it's even available....I usually do )

Sometimes:
Firefox (32) - for those W3School references
Skype (32) - just in case someone wants to talk...
Dropbox (32) - because it's always freaking running!!! gah

and other miscellaneous system drivers

Oh, geeze.

Well, I always have Skype and Dropbox running, so those aren't the culprits, I'd hazard (although, I'm running 0.7.1/7.2, so maybe I'm out of the running).

Chrome. (always, usually 10-30 instances)
A boatload of Chrome plugins.
NoteTab Pro (always)
Hightail Express (ditto)
Word
Outlook
AutoHotkey
Various Logitech devices/drivers
OneDrive

I think that those are the only "always" items. I'm listing them solely for possible exclusion, as I've not been having this issue.

Hitch

[BetterRed]

For the record - I use current Sigil on Win7, Win10, and Sigil 0.7.? on an oldish (pre Cinnamon) Mint.

Under the Show button below are the discretionary programs I am running right now (win 7), not system drivers, codecs etc. That, I don't get the problem doesn't eliminate these as potential culprits as my usage of Sigil is trivial; doubt I use more than 10% of functionality. So it could be any one of the gadgets I use.

If the problem is due to a 3rd party program its likely to be something that appears in the tray - probably behind the little arrow - maybe even hidden. In the list below the bold items are those that appear in the notify/tray areas, and most of them are in startup.

One other - have plug-ins been eliminated as the potential cause.

BR

Spoiler:

1by1.exe
7+ Taskbar Tweaker.exe
ActualTitleButtonsCenter.exe
calibre.exe
calibre-parallel.exe
chrome.exe
clicktoapp.exe
ClipboardFusion.exe
CursorHider.exe
EfficientCalendarFree.exe
Evernote.exe
EvernoteClipper.exe
EvernoteTray.exe
fdm.exe
feedreader.exe
firefox.exe
firefox.plugin-container.exe
flux.exe
i_view32.exe
ipoint.exe
itype.exe
KeepAliveHD.exe
msseces.exe
notepad++.exe
nusb3mon.exe
OneDrive.exe
ONENOTE.EXE
psi_tray.exe
PTFBPro.exe
RAVCpl64.exe
ScreenshotCaptor.exe
Shelltoys cliphook.exe
Sigil.exe
sWeather.exe
toggler.exe
WINWORD.EXE
WizMouse.exe
wweb32.exe
xplorer2_64.exe

[Hitch]

Originally Posted by BetterRed

For the record - I use current Sigil on Win7, Win10, and Sigil 0.7.? on an oldish (pre Cinnamon) Mint.

Under the Show button below are the discretionary programs I am running right now (win 7), not system drivers, codecs etc. That, I don't get the problem doesn't eliminate these as potential culprits as my usage of Sigil is trivial; doubt I use more than 10% of functionality. So it could be any one of the gadgets I use.

If the problem is due to a 3rd party program its likely to be something that appears in the tray - probably behind the little arrow - maybe even hidden. In the list below the bold items are those that appear in the notify/tray areas, and most of them are in startup.

One other - have plug-ins been eliminated as the potential cause.

BR

Spoiler:

1by1.exe
7+ Taskbar Tweaker.exe
ActualTitleButtonsCenter.exe
calibre.exe
calibre-parallel.exe
chrome.exe
clicktoapp.exe
ClipboardFusion.exe
CursorHider.exe
EfficientCalendarFree.exe
Evernote.exe
EvernoteClipper.exe
EvernoteTray.exe
fdm.exe
feedreader.exe
firefox.exe
firefox.plugin-container.exe
flux.exe
i_view32.exe
ipoint.exe
itype.exe
KeepAliveHD.exe
msseces.exe
notepad++.exe
nusb3mon.exe
OneDrive.exe
ONENOTE.EXE
psi_tray.exe
PTFBPro.exe
RAVCpl64.exe
ScreenshotCaptor.exe
Shelltoys cliphook.exe
Sigil.exe
sWeather.exe
toggler.exe
WINWORD.EXE
WizMouse.exe
wweb32.exe
xplorer2_64,exe

Hmmm...Calibre?

Anyone else here who had the issue, also running Calibre at the same time? Wondering if that might come into play? CSS, the C editor?...

Hitch

[BetterRed]

Originally Posted by Hitch

Hmmm...Calibre?

Anyone else here who had the issue, also running Calibre at the same time? Wondering if that might come into play? CSS, the C editor?...

Hitch

@Hitch - calibre wouldn't be my first choice. They each create there own 'working copies' for editing. They can clobber one another's edits if you have both of them editing the same book at the same time - but only a numbskull would do that - now where did I put that dunces hat

But I wouldn't think calibre would create these symptoms, much more likely to be something that's has naff all to do with ebooks - like my click.to example has naff all to do with word processing as such.

Looking at your list and mine - the thought occurred that it could be something like an AHK or PTFB rogue script. Say it mistakenly identifies a Sigil popup as a popup from another program (eg Windows UAC popup) that it's supposed to dismiss... Sends a message to Sigil that gets misinterpreted as delete such and such style sheet.

Just a speculative elastic string theory

BR

[Doitsu]

Originally Posted by theducks

So far not one person with this issue has even listed what OS they are using.

The OP hasn't even listed the version of Sigil that s/he's using. Maybe this problem only occurs in Sigil 0.6.x.

@pete6055 & @montanayank: Since nobody else could reliably reproduce the problem that you're having, it's most likely caused by a corrupted/outdated Sigil installation and/or third-party software/malware running in the background.

I'd recommend the following:

1. In Sigil, select Edit > Preferences > Open Preferences Location. This will open the Sigil preferences folder.
2. Close Sigil. Go to the Sigil preferences folder, make a backup copy of sigil.ini and delete the original.
3. Restart Sigil and test whether the problem still exists.

If the above steps didn't make a difference, try the "nuclear option:"

1. Make a backup of the Sigil preferences folder and delete the folder afterwards.
2. Uninstall Sigil.
3. Since some malware/spyware manufacturers bundle their malware with the setup programs of popular software such as Sigil, you may want to download AdwCleaner and check for Windows adware/malware.
4. Download and install the latest Sigil version from the official website or install one of the unofficial Windows 0.8.4 builds for older Windows versions. (There are also unofficial Linux builds, but if you have an older Mac, you're out of luck.)
5. If you've customized Sigil, you'll need to restore clips, dictionaries etc. from your preference folder backup.

[MickiTee]

Originally Posted by theducks

So far not one person with this issue has even listed what OS they are useing

+1 on listing the other running programs

You're quite right. Absolutely essential info for tracking the potential problem to its source.

I'm running Sigil on my Netbook with Windows 7 Starter & 2Gb RAM.

other applications running would include any or all of the following:
Firefox
Windows Explorer
MultiCommander (Explorer replacement)
Notepad
Spider Solitaire
Sony's Reader Library

[Turtle91]

Originally Posted by BetterRed

One other - have plug-ins been eliminated as the potential cause.

Pretty sure they aren't the culprit. AFAIK plugins weren't available on 7.xx, which is where I've seen the problem. I have NOT seen it (yet) on 8.4 - after 3 books without using my workaround.

I don't think it would be a 3rd party issue...although one never knows... why would adding a space to the CSS file prevent it from blanking? Is there some algorithm that changes an imported file's status once a change has been made...would said status change put the file in a category where Sigil would have to save all the data - where Sigil could ignore a file that didn't change?

[theducks]

On XP I routinely run along with Sigil without Issue:

Calibre (sigil is almost always launched via Open With PI)
Forte Agent (V7 and now at V8)
Firefox
Notepad++
Adobe Reader
Eudora 7.1
(Stock) windows Explorer
Flash
VLC (Play my tunes to edit by )
AVG
SOL or Freecell

Windows 7 (exclude the orange items above) add:
IE
Windows Media Player (with Media sharing enabled)

[KevinH]

FYI:

Early on, when computers were quite slow, Sigil took a long time to import ebooks. To get around that the original author of Sigil cached pages and used placeholders on disk (so that the time to actually write the file to disk could be saved during import).

So in older versions of Sigil, there were cases were files were imported (like Fonts) but they were not actually written into the working folder because you can't edit them and so a placeholder on disk was used until someone actually did a save.

So it is entirely plausible that editing a file (especially in older version of Sigil) might force a cached document to be saved to disk and thereby replace an empty placeholder.
I have tried to track all of those down and fix them since plugins needed all files written to disk (even before the first save). In theory it could still exist but I have never seen that bug myself. But what you are talking about is not inconsistent with how older Sigil (and possibly current Sigil?) worked.

KevinH

Originally Posted by Turtle91

Pretty sure they aren't the culprit. AFAIK plugins weren't available on 7.xx, which is where I've seen the problem. I have NOT seen it (yet) on 8.4 - after 3 books without using my workaround.

I don't think it would be a 3rd party issue...although one never knows... why would adding a space to the CSS file prevent it from blanking? Is there some algorithm that changes an imported file's status once a change has been made...would said status change put the file in a category where Sigil would have to save all the data - where Sigil could ignore a file that didn't change?

[pete6055]

Sigil 8.4 on two different PCs:

PC1: HP IQ506 Touchscreen - Vista Home Premium 64 SP2 & all KB's current; Programs running in the background: Avast 2015; Commodo Firewall 8.1.0.4426; CCleaner free 5.0.3.5128 (64-bit); Brother Control Center3 (w/Vista driver)

PC2: Toshiba Satellite L755 - Win7 Home Premium SP1 & all KB's current;
Programs running in the background: Avast 2015; Commodo Firewall 8.1.0.4426; CCleaner free 5.0.3.5128 (64-bit); Brother Control Center3 (w/Win7 driver)

The missing css problem happens on both machines.


I would not want to disable any of these programs long enough for a fair test,
especially my Anti-Virus and Firewall Software. Since the missing css problem appears to
be random, only a longer test is likely to yield reliable results.

Doitsu also suggested that I clean out the ini or reinstall. I've done this in the past (almost with every version since 6.2) with no effect on the problem. I've also cleaned out the registry both manually & using CCleaner when I did the re-installs, yet the css problem persists. Aside from this bug, Sigil seems stable in every other way.

I think we can rule out Microsoft Office & Outlook as causing the problem, since one
of my PCs has them, while the other doesn't, and I have noticed the css problem on both machines.

Here is my css; it validates in css3:

@font-face {
font-family: Geneva, san-serif;
font-style: normal;
font-weight: normal;
src: url(../Fonts/Geneva.ttf);
}

@font-face {
font-family: Verdana, san-serif;
font-style: normal;
font-weight: bold;
src: url(../Fonts/verdanab.ttf);
}

body {
font-family: Geneva, sans-serif;
}

p {
margin-top: 0;
margin-bottom: 0;
margin-right: 0.2cm;
margin-left: 0.2cm;
padding: 0;
font-size: 1em;
text-indent: 0.2cm;
}

.hdr {
font-family: Verdana, sans-serif;
text-align: center;
font-weight: bold;
color: black;
}

.cntr {
text-align: center;
}

.rt {
text-align: right;
}

.indnt {
text-indent: 1cm;
}

.mb {
margin-bottom: 0.2cm;
}

.mt {
margin-top: 0.2cm;
}

.mt2cm {
margin-top: 2cm;
}

.larger {
font-size: larger;
}

.smaller {
font-size: smaller;
}

.fnt {
font-family: Geneva, sans-serif;
font-size: 1.9em;
line-height: 1.2;
}

.italic {
font-style: italic;
}

.bold {
font-family: Verdana, sans-serif;
font-weight: bold;
}

span.bdr {
border-top: 1px solid red;
border-bottom: 1px solid red;
}

.color {
color: #696969;
}

.big {
font-family: Geneva, sans-serif;
font-size: 2.5em;
line-height: 1.2;
}

.nospace {
margin: 0;
padding: 0;
}

.block {
display: block;
background-color: black;
color: white;
margin-right: 25%;
margin-left: 25%;
line-height: 1.2;
}

.box {
border: solid;
border-width: 1px;
display: block;
font-size: 1em;
margin-bottom: 1em;
margin-left: 20px;
margin-right: 20px;
margin-top: 1em;
padding-bottom: 1em;
padding-left: 1em;
padding-right: 1em;
padding-top: 1em;
text-align: left;
}

[BetterRed]

So, from what I see it seems some Windows/Sigil users don't run antivirus packages - can this be true?

If a 3rd party program is involved in the problem, it's unlikely to be something you run from a shortcut on the desktop or a pinned item in the task-bar/start-menu. More likely to be something that is run at Windows start up.

Could be a program you don't even realise you have - aka Potentially Unwanted Program (PUP) - a malwarebytes scan will find most PUPs.

BR

[BetterRed]

Originally Posted by pete6055

Sigil 8.4 on two different PCs:

PC1: HP IQ506 Touchscreen - Vista Home Premium 64 SP2 & all KB's current; Programs running in the background: Avast 2015; Commodo Firewall 8.1.0.4426; CCleaner free 5.0.3.5128 (64-bit); Brother Control Center3 (w/Vista driver)

PC2: Toshiba Satellite L755 - Win7 Home Premium SP1 & all KB's current;
Programs running in the background: Avast 2015; Commodo Firewall 8.1.0.4426; CCleaner free 5.0.3.5128 (64-bit); Brother Control Center3 (w/Win7 driver)

@pete6055 - the Comodo Firewall has caused file i/o problems in calibre, example =->> Calibre will not add books to Library (Windows Vista SP2)

And IIRC Comodo Security s/w also created problems with one of the better known Windows Explorer alternatives.

If you could get a repeatable scenario it could be worthwhile pulling the plug on it and the 'net.

BR

[Hitch]

Originally Posted by BetterRed

So, from what I see it seems some Windows/Sigil users don't run antivirus packages - can this be true?

If a 3rd party program is involved in the problem, it's unlikely to be something you run from a shortcut on the desktop or a pinned item in the task-bar/start-menu. More likely to be something that is run at Windows start up.

Could be a program you don't even realise you have - aka Potentially Unwanted Program (PUP) - a malwarebytes scan will find most PUPs.

BR

If you're asking me, no, of course not. (With my clientele? I'd be utterly daft and mad.) I have Windows AV and Norton, as well (because my other half uses Exploder as his browser of choice, plus, TBH, I have 800+ passwords, and I like Norton's pwd mgr better than most, {shrug}).

Hitch

[BetterRed]

@Hitch - I was making an observation - I assume everyone runs some sort of security - especially you - stark raving nuts you're not

BTW 1 : I'm not 100% on top of current Norton security - but it used to be, that running its AV alongside any other AV (eg MS, Avast etc) was not a good idea - performance problems, file lockups, Program not responding etc. Actually that applies to most AVs

The Malwarebytes Pro edition is specifically designed so that it can be run alongside other AVs.

BTW 2 : I have no connection whatsoever with Malwarebytes. Just think they make damn good products that don't want to take over your machine and/or your life.

BR