Kobo purchase declined and now my bank has my card blocked [resolved]

[Purple Lady]

Originally Posted by susan_cassidy

Some debit cards have the same type of protection as a credit card (e.g. $50 max out of pocket, etc).

Yes they have the same protections, but the problem is that the money is gone from your account until the bank restores it. You don't have that problem with a credit card. If you don't notice that someone stole your money until you have a check bounce you also have penalties to pay.

[crich70]

Well in my case I was very lucky. The bank caught the would be theft before any money was taken. Someone over seas in another country was trying to use it (I forget where) but they didn't get a penny. My bank knows me and that I don't travel overseas. Most of the time I can't even get out of town much less from one state to another so an out of country charge was a flag raiser. I changed email addy's for my online shopping as part of things along with everything else so I should be safe (hopefully). I don't use it much for online purchases and for at least some of those I use paypal now. I do have some of my bills auto deducted via my debit card but those are fixed amounts usually so the bank can see a pattern of expenses.

[JSWolf]

One day the bank called me and told me a shop I had used my card at had been hacked and they had cancelled my card and were overnighting me a new card. next day, I got the new card. All was well.

[Brazen_NL]

There's two "incidents" that I remember:

The first was when I spent more than I regularly do in one shop. The sales person had to make a call to the issuing bank (for Mastercard). I confirmed it was me and the bank approved the payment.

The second was when I got my monthly statement and it was several thousand dollars. I phoned the bank to say that there were a lot of payments I didn't recognize. I told them to check my history, and it's mostly recurring payments for services, and some for stores that I buy from every month. They agreed that it was ... fishy. The good part? They decided to refund me first, start the investigation and send me a new card. About a week later they called me and said it was criminal activity and I didn't need to pay. The unrecognized payments turned out to be all to gambling sites.

Couldn't be happier about how they handled things.

[Apache]

I opened my January Am Ex Statement once, to find that the bill was for $27, 000.00. These were charges for the month of December and I am a jeweler. I live in South Georgia and the charges were in California. The charges were from all over the state, mostly in Home Depots. I called Am Ex and informed them that I did not make those charges. They asked me if I could prove I was not in California on the dates in question. I pointed out my occupation and that one of the charges was at a Home Depot on December 24th. In the 25 years that I have had my store I am always there on December 24th. Am Ex said they would investigate and I did not have to pay the charges.

I also had my bank call me three months ago and asked me if I was aware that my Insurance company was about to debit my checking account for over $8,000.00. I canceled that and called the insurance company to find out what was going on. Evidently who ever handled the transaction managed to mix my account up with a commercial account.
Apache

[BearMountainBooks]

Originally Posted by crich70

Well in my case I was very lucky. The bank caught the would be theft before any money was taken. Someone over seas in another country was trying to use it (I forget where) but they didn't get a penny. My bank knows me and that I don't travel overseas. Most of the time I can't even get out of town much less from one state to another so an out of country charge was a flag raiser. I changed email addy's for my online shopping as part of things along with everything else so I should be safe (hopefully). I don't use it much for online purchases and for at least some of those I use paypal now. I do have some of my bills auto deducted via my debit card but those are fixed amounts usually so the bank can see a pattern of expenses.

Be aware that unless you carry a credit card on your paypal account, it has no protection. Paypal told me on the phone during several calls that they rely on the credit card insurance for protection of accounts. This includes if you have your paypal linked to your bank account (which I will no longer do since paypal does not insure against theft/misuse/fraud). Things may have changed since my numerous calls to them about 3 years ago. They advised me to up my security by purchasing one of those key lob thingies that has to be on hand to make a transaction.

So far as I know, they do not offer fraud protection of any kind and rely on the credit card on file to provide it should someone begin using your paypal account and drain it. Again, this may have changed, but it would behoove you to check with your bank if it is linked and with your credit card and with paypal to understand any protection that may or may not be offered.

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by BearMountainBooks

Be aware that unless you carry a credit card on your paypal account, it has no protection. Paypal told me on the phone during several calls that they rely on the credit card insurance for protection of accounts. This includes if you have your paypal linked to your bank account (which I will no longer do since paypal does not insure against theft/misuse/fraud). Things may have changed since my numerous calls to them about 3 years ago. They advised me to up my security by purchasing one of those key lob thingies that has to be on hand to make a transaction.

So far as I know, they do not offer fraud protection of any kind and rely on the credit card on file to provide it should someone begin using your paypal account and drain it. Again, this may have changed, but it would behoove you to check with your bank if it is linked and with your credit card and with paypal to understand any protection that may or may not be offered.

In the EU, PayPal operate as a bank and provide the level of protection for your money which is mandated by EU law, which is quite a large amount. You're not liable for fraudulent activity on your bank account under EU law.

[BearMountainBooks]

Paypal here used to be partnered with a bank and they have some dealings, but when I talked to them because I was concerned about an event that occurred, from what I could tell, I had no recourse open to me if someone made fraudulent purchases. The credit card that was on the account had expired. So far as I could tell my credit union didn't even know the answer to the question because I had given permission for charges from paypal.

That's part of the problem. Many retailers/bankers/whatever don't HAVE a plan for being hacked. They create one AFTER it happens.

[shalym]

Originally Posted by BearMountainBooks

Paypal here used to be partnered with a bank and they have some dealings, but when I talked to them because I was concerned about an event that occurred, from what I could tell, I had no recourse open to me if someone made fraudulent purchases. The credit card that was on the account had expired. So far as I could tell my credit union didn't even know the answer to the question because I had given permission for charges from paypal.

That's part of the problem. Many retailers/bankers/whatever don't HAVE a plan for being hacked. They create one AFTER it happens.

How long ago what that conversation? I ask because that's completely different from what it says on Paypal's website https://www.paypal.com/us/webapps/mp...eement-full#12

Spoiler:

12. Resolution Procedures for Unauthorized Transactions, Remittance Transfer Errors and Other Errors.
(Previously called the Electronic Funds Transfer Rights and Error Resolution Policy)

12.1 Protection for Unauthorized Transactions and Other Errors. When an Unauthorized Transaction or Other Error occurs in your Account, including Unauthorized Transactions that occur because your PayPal Debit Card or PayPal Mobile-activated phone has been lost or stolen, PayPal will cover you for the full amount of every eligible Unauthorized Transaction or Other Error as long as you follow the procedures discussed below in Section 12.2. If you add a Closed Loop gift card to your Account, but this card does not act as a funding source in your Account, then any use of this card is not considered a transaction in your Account. Accordingly, any Unauthorized Transaction, Other Error, or Remittance Transfer Error on this gift card is not PayPal’s responsibility and you are not covered under any PayPal protection programs.

An "Unauthorized Transaction" is a type of error that occurs when money is sent from your Account that you did not authorize and that did not benefit you. For example, if someone steals your password, uses the password to access your Account, and sends a payment from your Account, an Unauthorized Transaction has occurred. If you give someone access to your Account (by giving them your login information) and they conduct transactions without your knowledge or permission, you are responsible for any resulting use. Such transactions are not considered Unauthorized Transactions and are not covered under any PayPal protection programs.

In addition, "Other Errors" occur when money is either incorrectly taken from your Account or incorrectly placed into your Account, or when transactions are incorrectly recorded in your Account. Other Errors that are covered by PayPal are limited to the following events: if you send a payment and it is incorrectly debited from your Account; if an incorrect amount is credited to your Account; if a transaction is missing from or not properly identified in your Account statement; if you receive an incorrect amount of money at an ATM; and if there is a computational or mathematical error by PayPal. Unauthorized Transactions and Other Errors do not include Disputes, Claims, Chargebacks, and Reversals. You agree that PayPal is authorized to handle Disputes, Claims, Chargebacks, and Reversals as set forth in this Agreement, and that no determination made by PayPal or a card issuer with respect to a Dispute, Claim, Chargeback or Reversal will be considered an Unauthorized Transaction or Other Error. Routine inquiries about your Account balance or the status of a pending transfer into or out of your Account are not considered Unauthorized Transactions or Other Errors unless you expressly notify us of an Unauthorized Transaction or Other Error in connection with the transfer. Requests for information for tax or other recordkeeping purposes and requests for duplicate documentation also are not deemed to be Unauthorized Transactions or Other Errors.

PayPal also covers you for Remittance Transfer Errors as long as you follow the procedures discussed below in Section 12.5.

You may request documentation or information regarding your Account or transaction to determine whether an Unauthorized Transaction,Other Error or a Remittance Transfer Error exists by contacting us through the Contact Us link at the bottom of each page of the PayPal website.

12.2 Notification Requirements.

You should immediately notify PayPal if you believe:

there has been an Unauthorized Transaction, unauthorized access to your Account, or the occurrence of an Other Error;

there is an error in your Account statement (you can access your Account statement by logging into your Account) or your transaction confirmation sent to you by email;

your password or PayPal Mobile PIN has been compromised;

your PayPal Debit Card or PayPal Mobile-activated phone has been lost, stolen or deactivated; or

you need more information about a transaction listed on the statement or transaction confirmation.
To be eligible for 100% protection for Unauthorized Transactions or Other Errors in your Account, you must notify us within 60 Days after any Unauthorized Transaction or Other Error first appears in your Account statement. We will extend the 60 Day time period if a good reason, such as a hospital stay, kept you from notifying us within 60 Days.

You should regularly log into your Account and review your Account statement to ensure that there has not been an Unauthorized Transaction or Other Error. PayPal will also send an email to the primary email address you have provided in order to notify you of each transaction from your Account, unless you have opted out of receiving certain notifications. You should also review these transaction confirmations to ensure that each transaction was authorized and is accurate.

For Unauthorized Transactions or Other Errors involving your PayPal Debit Card, notify us as follows:
Log into your Account, go to the "Account Overview" page, select the transaction details for the transaction you wish to dispute and then follow the directions. Please print and sign the completed form, then mail it to us (PayPal, Attn: PayPal Debit Card Department, P.O. Box 45950, Omaha, NE 68145-0950) or send it by fax to (303) 395-2855; or
Telephone PayPal Customer Service at (402) 935-7733.
For Unauthorized Transactions or Other Errors in your Account, notify us as follows:
Use this form to file an error report in the PayPal Resolution Center; or
Write to PayPal, Attn: Error Resolution Department, P.O. Box 45950, Omaha, NE 68145-0950; or
Telephone PayPal Customer Service at (402) 935-7733.
When you notify us, provide us with all of the following information:
Your name and email address registered to your Account;
A description of any suspected Unauthorized Transaction or Other Error and an explanation as to why you believe it is incorrect or why you need more information to identify the transaction; and
The dollar amount of any suspected Unauthorized Transaction or Other Error.

If you notify us orally, we may require that you send us your complaint or question in writing within 10 Business Days. During the course of our investigation, we may request additional information from you.

12.3 PayPal Actions after Receipt of Your Notification. Once you notify us of any suspected Unauthorized Transaction or Other Error, or we otherwise learn of one, we will do the following:

We will conduct an investigation to determine whether there has been an Unauthorized Transaction or Other Error that is eligible for protection.

We will complete our investigation within 10 Business Days of the date we received your notification of the suspected Unauthorized Transaction or Other Error. If your Account is new (the first transaction from your Account was less than 30 Business Days from the date you notify us), we may take up to 20 Business Days to complete this investigation. If we need more time, we may take up to 45 Days to complete our investigation (or up to 90 Days for new Accounts, or if your transaction was at a point of sale where you were physically present, or a foreign initiated transaction).

If we decide that we need more time to complete our investigation, we will provisionally credit your Account for the amount of the suspected error. You will receive the provisional credit within 10 Business Days of the date we received your notice (or 20 Business Days for new Accounts). This will allow you to have use of the money until we complete the investigation. We will notify you of the provisional credit within 2 Business Days of the crediting. If we ask you to put your complaint or question in writing and we do not receive it within 10 Business Days (or 20 Business Days for new Accounts), we will not provisionally credit your Account.

We will inform you of our decision within 3 Business Days after completing our investigation.

If we determine that there was an error, we will promptly credit the full amount of the error into your Account within 1 Business Day of our determination. Or, if you have already received a provisional credit, you will be allowed to retain those amounts.

If we decide that there was not an error, we will include an explanation of our decision in our email to you. If you received a provisional credit, we will remove it from your Account and notify you of the date and amount of the debit. You may request copies of the documents that we used in our investigation.

12.4 PayPal Processing Errors. We will rectify any processing error that we discover. If the error results in your receipt of less than the correct amount to which you are entitled, PayPal will credit your Account for the difference. If the error results in your receipt of more than the correct amount to which you are entitled, PayPal will debit the extra funds from your Account. If the error resulted in our not completing a transaction on time or in the correct amount, we will be liable for your losses or damages directly caused by this failure, unless: (a) through no fault of ours, you did not have enough available funds to complete the transaction, (b) our system was not working properly and you knew about the breakdown when you started the transaction, or (c) circumstances beyond our control (such as fire, flood or loss of Internet connection) prevented the transaction, despite our reasonable precautions.

12.5 Protection for Remittance to Recipients with PayPal Accounts Outside of the United States

Protection for Remittance Transfer Errors.

When you send a Remittance Transfer and a Remittance Transfer Error occurs in your Account, you may have the right to certain remedies, so long as you follow the procedures discussed below.A “Remittance Transfer”must meet the following requirements:

A payment sent from a PayPal Personal or Premier account where the sender is not a commercial entity and has not accepted the Commercial Entity Agreement.
A payment sent to a recipient with an Account in a country outside of the US.
The sender sends the payment for personal, family or household purposes.
The payment sent is more than $15 USD or more than $15 USD equivalent (not including fees or taxes charged to the sender) in the currency in which the transaction is funded.
Sender received a Remittance Receipt which states that they have up to 180 days to report a Remittance Transfer Error.
The payment is sent later than 10.27.2013.

Payments that you make at a merchant website or location by selecting PayPal as a payment option are not “Remittance Transfers.”

A “Remittance Transfer Error” occurs if:

You paid an incorrect amount to send the Remittance Transfer; for example, you were charged more than the total shown on the Remittance Receipt you received.
PayPal made a computational or bookkeeping error, such as a miscalculation of the amount the recipient received.
The amount stated in the Remittance Receipt was not made available to the recipient, unless:
we stated in the Remittance Receipt that we used estimates and the difference in the amount received and the amount stated in the Remittance Receipt was a result of such estimation; or
the problem was caused by extraordinary circumstances outside our control.
Funds were available to the recipient later than the date of availability that was disclosed to you on the Remittance Receipt or were not delivered, unless:
extraordinary circumstances outside our control caused the delay,
delays resulted from fraud screenings, or were caused by requirements of the Office of Foreign Assets Controls or similar requirements.
you (or someone assisting you) made the transfer with fraudulent intent.

You can also request for certain documentation or information concerning the Remittance Transfer, such as clarification required to determine if a Remittance Transfer Error occurred.

The scope of this section is limited to the Remittance Transfer Errors described above. For Unauthorized Transactions and Other Errors, please see Section 12.1 to 12.4.

Notification Requirements.

To report one of the Remittance Transfer Errors listed above, you must notify PayPal within 180 Days of the funds availability date that was disclosed to you on the Remittance Receipt, You must also request for any additional documentation related to a Remittance Transfer Error within these 180 Days.
Notify us of a Remittance Transfer Errors by doing one of the following:
Log In to your Account at paypal.com and go to the Resolution Center and dispute a Transaction.
Write to PayPal, Attn: Error Resolution Department, P.O. Box 45950, Omaha, NE 68145-0950; or
Telephone PayPal Customer Service at (402) 935-7733.
When you notify us of a Remittance Transfer Error, you must provide us with the following information:
Your name, and telephone number or email address registered to your Account;
Recipient’s name, and to the extent you know it: their telephone number, or address.
Transaction ID number or other information that enables us to identify the applicable Remittance Transfer;
An explanation of why you think the error exists, including (to the extent possible) the type, date and the amount of error.

PayPal Actions after Receipt of Your Notification.

Once you notify us of a Remittance Transfer Error, we will do the following:

Conduct an investigation to determine whether a Remittance Transfer Error has occurred.
Complete our investigation within 90 Days of the date we received your notice of the Remittance Transfer Error and respond to you within 3 Business Days after we complete the investigation.
If you request additional documentation or information to determine if there was a Remittance Transfer Error, you may report the Remittance Transfer Error within the later of 180 Days of the date of availability disclosed on the Remittance Receipt or 60 Days after we provide you with the documentation or information.
If we find that no Remittance Transfer Error has occurred, we will provide you with a written explanation of the results of the investigation. In this case, you will have the right to request any documentation we relied on to make our determination.
If we find that a Remittance Transfer Error has occurred, we will provide you with a list of available remedies. You will have 10 Days to notify us of your preferred remedy via email. If you do not let us know your preferred remedy within 10 Days after we notify you of the available remedies, we will refund you the amount appropriate to resolve the error. The remedies available are as follows:
If we determine that you were charged more than what the Remittance Receipt stated, or there was a computational or bookkeeping error, or the designated recipient did not receive the amount stated on the Remittance Receipt, you will have the option of seeking a refund or a redelivery of the amount appropriate to resolve the Remittance Transfer Error.
If we determine that the recipient received the funds later than the date of availability disclosed on your Remittance Receipt, we will refund you any fees you paid to us for the transaction.
If we determine that the funds were not delivered, we will not only refund you any fees or taxes you paid for the Remittance Transfer, but we will also provide you the option of a refund or a redelivery of the amount appropriate to resolve the Remittance Transfer Error.

After you notify us about your preferred remedy or 10 Days after we have notified you of the available remedies, whichever period is shorter, we will correct the Remittance Transfer Error within 1 Business Day or as soon as reasonably practical.

Shari

[BearMountainBooks]

It has been a while, HOWEVER, when I called, and asked HOW the protection was afforded, it turns out it was afforded VIA a credit card on the account. I did NOT have such a card active on my account. So after hemming and hawing, the support person said she did not think I was covered. We went round and round and I talked to several people. So them saying it is covered may be true, but what I found when I called was that it was ONLY true if I had a credit card attached. This came up because many people attach a bank account to paypal to have payments made directly or to put money into paypal.

I talked to them more than once and heard from more than one person that I was not covered because my credit card had expired. They advised me to put a working, valid credit card on the account.

I uncoupled my bank information (because there was NO LIMIT on what could be spent via paypal--they'd keep pulling the money from my account if charges were processed) and have not added it or a credit card. It may be that people are covered. I was told I was not. The terms may have changed since then but even that section does not say HOW you are covered or by what insurance body. I'm not saying anyone is or isn't. All I know is that when I called and asked about the scenario of someone spending money and it being pulled from my bank, it appeared there was no coverage and I was told to add a credit card and then it would be covered. This made no sense as I didn't see how a credit card company would cover fraud that occurred via bank payments. I ended up not trusting the system they had in place.

While I need a paypal account for many transactions (I run a blog store and also an editing business. Some retailers pay via paypal) I limit it as much as possible and do not attach it to other banking/credit cards/etc. This has become my policy with most banking institutions because no one is watching the cake. It's all convenient, until it isn't.