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Old 02-04-2015, 07:49 PM   #31
CRussel
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What I don't understand is why TOR books have DRM on Amazon. Clearly the publisher has NOT told Amazon that they want the book DRM-Free, since we know that it's an option the publisher can choose. Take a look at ANY Baen book on Amazon - no DRM. Buy it, download it, format shift it, whatever. So, if tiny little Baen can manage to get their books up on Amazon without DRM, I certainly think TOR should be able to, IF they want to.
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Old 02-04-2015, 07:53 PM   #32
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All I know is that I see plenty of Tor books that have the DRM-free message.

I have not got the faintest clue whether they actually have DRM or not, because the tools work automatically anytime I import a book into calibre, so how could I possibly tell unless I obsessively scrutinize the debug log whenever I run calibre, or re-download all my books just for the fun of checking this trivia?

But Tor would seem to be telling Amazon "no DRM, please".
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Old 02-04-2015, 07:53 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by davidfor View Post
Sorry, but that's bullshit. If there is a button to download the file and it doesn't work, there is a bug. They deserve the opportunity to fix the problem. And the only way they can know, without testing every single link from every single browser and operating system and language and lots of other things that are different, is if the person who discovers the problem tells them.
Hahahaha! Seriously? Just this past weekend I bought a book that wouldn't download and after half an hour on the phone, the rep agreed and said it was a bad book. The follow up email confirmed this and refunded my money. Are they still selling it? Need you ask?


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Personally, I have never had a problem when I went to download books I have purchased from Kobo.
Lucky! I've had several. I still have an extant book that won't download to Kobo for PC or my Glo or Mini.
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Old 02-04-2015, 07:58 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by davidfor View Post
Obok was developed by a different person than the other DRM removal tools, so it is quite reasonable for it not to be in the same place.
ALL of the DRM removal tools were developed by very many different people. No one person is responsible for The Tools coming in to being. I don't want to argue with you. I'm not new to this game. And I certainly don't need any lectures on the subject. The fact that we are even discussing a DRM removal tool in regards to "retrieving" a drm-free epub is ridiculous. DRM-free is supposed to be easy. EPUB retailers are purposely crapping on the wishes of people who are at least attempting to make my ebook experience easier by selling DRM-free epubs.

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So it is wrong for Kobo to develop their application to follow Microsoft's standards? Yes, you can make an argument that they should be in the documents directory, but where they are is a valid place for data that is only to be used by the one application. The DRM protected books fit into that category and it would make no sense to separate them.
But we're not talking about DRM protected books, are we? We're talking about files that people are supposed to have easy access to. And I'm not aware of any other Desktop Reading software that stores its books files in directories that are hidden by default--DRMed or otherwise. Are you?
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Old 02-04-2015, 08:06 PM   #35
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Originally Posted by CRussel View Post
What I don't understand is why TOR books have DRM on Amazon. Clearly the publisher has NOT told Amazon that they want the book DRM-Free, since we know that it's an option the publisher can choose. Take a look at ANY Baen book on Amazon - no DRM. Buy it, download it, format shift it, whatever. So, if tiny little Baen can manage to get their books up on Amazon without DRM, I certainly think TOR should be able to, IF they want to.
I've not bought a lot of TOR books from Amazon (I tend to try and find a standard epub first), so I can't attest to them having DRM or not. I KNOW the epubs don't usually have DRM. That would be rather disappointing if TOR allows Amazon to apply DRM to many of their books without saying anything about it.
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Old 02-04-2015, 08:19 PM   #36
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Originally Posted by issybird View Post
Hahahaha! Seriously? Just this past weekend I bought a book that wouldn't download and after half an hour on the phone, the rep agreed and said it was a bad book. The follow up email confirmed this and refunded my money. Are they still selling it? Need you ask?
So your issue is that the support didn't solve the problem for you? Yes, they should remove the book from sale. But, maybe they have a process to fix the problem and they believe it will be fixed quickly enough to

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Lucky! I've had several. I still have an extant book that won't download to Kobo for PC or my Glo or Mini.
Which probably means it is a book that is not designed for those environments. And I have several books like that. They read fine in the iPad app. But, this is not what I was talking about. I have never purchased a book from Kobo that had a download link in the library on the site and that the link didn't work. Ok, a couple timed out while ADE tried to download it, but they worked the next time.
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Old 02-04-2015, 08:27 PM   #37
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Originally Posted by davidfor View Post
So your issue is that the support didn't solve the problem for you? Yes, they should remove the book from sale. But, maybe they have a process to fix the problem and they believe it will be fixed quickly enough to
IIRC, this is just a trend of Kobo being Kobo though.

Somehow people are always complaining about Kobo having one issue or another, and I am fairly sure I recall previous statements of anger that they left the book up for sale.
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Old 02-04-2015, 08:27 PM   #38
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Originally Posted by davidfor View Post
I have never purchased a book from Kobo that had a download link in the library on the site and that the link didn't work.
I never had any trouble until the first time I had trouble either. Now trouble has started piling up a bit for me lately at Kobo--and for some others apparently, too.
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Old 02-04-2015, 10:01 PM   #39
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Kobo recently started adding download info to the product info section at the bottom of each book page.

If it's available for direct download, it's supposedly indicated with the format and DRM status, e.g., EPUB2 (Adobe DRM) or EPUB2 (DRM-Free). The tricky part is, if it's not downloadable (and therefore likely EPUB3 with or without DRM), it says nothing at all

I don't know how accurate Kobo's product info is. Would be interesting to know if it's as reliable (or unreliable) as the blue "download epub" button.
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Old 02-04-2015, 10:04 PM   #40
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Got a response from Kobo CS to my complaint:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kobo
Dear XXXXX,

Thank you for contacting Kobo Customer Care. We are happy to assist you.

You contacted us in regards to an issue you were experiencing with your purchased eBook. You advised us that you are unable to download your purchased eBook. We apologize for any inconveniences this may have caused you. Unfortunately, your purchased eBook was published as an ePub 3. eBooks in this type of format can not be sideloaded or downloaded.
Which is, of course, patently false. There is nothing inherently undownloadable or unsideloadable about a DRM-free EPUB3.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kobo
In order to avoid this issue from happening again, please save the eBooks as preview, by clicking on "Save Preview", which is located underneath the "Buy Now" button, and visit "My Library" on the Kobo website, at www.kobobooks.com.
Which I did—and always do—to avoid accidentally purchasing kepub-only ebooks. That's how I saw it was a "supposedly" downloadable DRM-free epub to begin with.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kobo
If you are able to view the download link for the eBook, at that point you should be able to sync it to your eReader.
Which completely ignores the part of my initial complaint where I clearly indicate that I DON'T HAVE A KOBO DEVICE TO SYNC EBOOKS TO (and slickly avoids answering the question about why a button that doesn't work is being misleadingly displayed in the first place).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kobo
In regards to this purchase we can provide you with a Store Credit or a Refund.
Aaaaaaand we're done. Thanks for the exercise in futility.
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Old 02-04-2015, 10:12 PM   #41
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Originally Posted by Jane12 View Post
If it's available for direct download, it's supposedly indicated with the format and DRM status, e.g., EPUB2 (Adobe DRM) or EPUB2 (DRM-Free). The tricky part is, if it's not downloadable (and therefore likely EPUB3 with or without DRM), it says nothing at all

I don't know how accurate Kobo's product info is. Would be interesting to know if it's as reliable (or unreliable) as the blue "download epub" button.
Well that's consistent with the ebook I bought. The product info said nothing at all (though preview specifically said "DRM-Free EPUB"). Thanks for the info. I still find that sort of obfuscation unacceptable, but at least I'm armed with more info now. I'm going to need a freaking pre-buy checklist for each store from now on, I guess.
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Old 02-04-2015, 10:25 PM   #42
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Nothing new, they convert all books (not just ePub3) to kePub and always have.
That's using Kobo Desktop or a Kobo Reader to download. ePub 2 can be downloaded as an ePub via the website using a web browser. ePub 3 cannot be downloaded as ePub, only kepub.

My guess is maybe Kobo is trying to allow us to download ePub 3 as ePub and it's a glitch on the site that we cannot (yet).
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Old 02-04-2015, 10:26 PM   #43
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That third book in your list is (at least in Canada) not available till March 3, 2015
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Old 02-04-2015, 10:34 PM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by danicca View Post
I did complain and they removed the book from my library and now I'm waiting for it to get back.
The sad thing is that I first bought it at amazon an asked for refund because calibre complained it had DRM-it was a Tor book and I was annoyed. Omnilit won't let me buy it, and kobo doesn't have download option. I couldn't use obok because my PC has linux. The next book from same author is on my wishlist, I have no idea where I'm going to buy that.
Buy from Google Play. You get whatever version ePub the publisher puts out there.
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Old 02-04-2015, 10:37 PM   #45
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Originally Posted by eschwartz View Post
Somehow people are always complaining about Kobo having one issue or another, and I am fairly sure I recall previous statements of anger that they left the book up for sale.
They've got books that they've known have problems for years that they're still selling. This has been made known not only to Kobo CS, but also directly to
Michael Tamblyn.
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