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Old 10-24-2014, 04:30 PM   #31
pwalker8
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Not real (really?) surprising that people fall back on the rhetorical device of regurgitating meaningless or irrelevant "facts" supporting--well God knows what they're actually supposed to support at this point, really--when they have no appreciable mocking skills.
Well, when the facts aren't on your side, then I guess you would like to consider all facts meaningless or irrelevant. Personally, I don't really consider a loss of $437 million in 3 months to be meaningless.
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Old 10-24-2014, 04:34 PM   #32
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Plowing money back into the company is a good strategy for a growing company, but Amazon is a mature company now.
I don't think Bezos will consider it a mature company until it sells everything from aerospace to zoology supplies.
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Old 10-24-2014, 06:37 PM   #33
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When it's been around for 20 years, thus the mature company comment. Eventually investors want a little return on investment or they stop investing in it.
Apple was around 20 years old when the ipod came out and over 30 for the iphone.
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Old 10-24-2014, 08:08 PM   #34
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Apple was around 20 years old when the ipod came out and over 30 for the iphone.
Sure, but then again, no one was saying at that time that it's no big deal if Apple had a huge loss. It's entirely rational to have a short term loss, if you think the investment will lead to long term profits. But eventually, the investors expect to see a return on investment.
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Old 10-24-2014, 08:24 PM   #35
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But 20% more revenue is a massiv grow, especially for a 20 year old company. I think it is obvious that amazon has a long time strategy. After all, this internet business is not a mature market. And they are the biggest fish in it. I think as long as the market grows at this rate, it would be foolish to not get the biggest pie of it. For example they put much money in this ebook thing. They more or less created this new market. And by doing this (and no other player that really tried) they now dominate it and people talk even about a monopoly.
Of course not everyone is in the stock market with the same goals or expectations. But I think for amazon this strategy makes a lot of sense. It shows of strength, to act the way amazon does: focus on the long term health and sucess instead of creating short term profits to make quarterly reports more attractive to a special group of investors.
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Old 10-24-2014, 08:26 PM   #36
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Amazon is buying Twitch for $970 million which explains their expected loss for the 4th quarter.
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Old 10-24-2014, 08:41 PM   #37
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I fell for it
more like dove head first...
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Old 10-24-2014, 09:56 PM   #38
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Sure, but then again, no one was saying at that time that it's no big deal if Apple had a huge loss. It's entirely rational to have a short term loss, if you think the investment will lead to long term profits. But eventually, the investors expect to see a return on investment.
I replied directly to your point with a factual refutation. Please extend the same courtesy to me or not reply at all.

Your reply to me has nothing to do with your original post or my reply. You have done this dozens of times and I am getting very tired of it.
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Old 10-24-2014, 10:32 PM   #39
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But eventually, the investors expect to see a return on investment.
Well, yes, but what's wrong with disappointing them?

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Amazon's not into making money. It's thing is to make customers like me happy.
Yes. Amazon shows it is possible to put people over profits. Personally, I think they could worry more about the people who work for them, but the general principle of people over profits seems to work here.

If Amazon gets to a point where is has to make money, I suppose it could jettison whatever parts of its business lose money (this?) and thus goose profits for a couple years.
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Old 10-24-2014, 10:34 PM   #40
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When it's been around for 20 years, thus the mature company comment. Eventually investors want a little return on investment or they stop investing in it.
Amazon's board doesn't have to care about a short term stock price drop unless they are planning on raising cash via new stock offerings or if they are threatened by a board takeover by some corporate raider/activist stockholder. Since Amazon has been willing in the past to accept losses while they are building the business (7 straight years in the beginning), I expect that if they believe that these losses are really investments in building infrastructure and customer loyalty programs, they'll let Bezo have losses for several quarters before pushing for alterations in the operating model.

I view the things the analyst mentions in the WSJ article, the phone, the set-top box, streaming originals, as items that tie customers into the Amazon infrastructure, walled garden, and loyalty programs, just like the Kindle and Amazon Prime. Amazon knows that the customers who buy these things spend a lot more at Amazon, and if they have to spend a lot of money to get the infrastructure in place, it will pay back not just on the sales of these items.
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Old 10-24-2014, 10:49 PM   #41
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Yes. Amazon shows it is possible to put people over profits. Personally, I think they could worry more about the people who work for them, but the general principle of people over profits seems to work here.

If Amazon gets to a point where is has to make money, I suppose it could jettison whatever parts of its business lose money (this?) and thus goose profits for a couple years.
It isn't even a case of people over profits, it is growth over profits and reinvesting what would otherwise be profit to fuel more growth has always been the way they worked as it keeps their tax liability to a minimum.

If investors ever did get vociferous enough about a lack of profits then they wouldn't need to sell anything off either, just increase their margins by a tiny amount that wouldn't harm sales but would instantly result in a profit.

Another thing to bear in mind with their focus on growth, they probably have one eye on alibaba which actually has a higher valuation than them and would presumably intend to expand further outward from its chinese base in time.
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Old 10-25-2014, 03:50 AM   #42
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The phone thing didn't help them. If they had instead launched a less expensive phone, fewer bells and whistles, and not sold at an iPhone price, it would have been a better for them IMHO.
I have no interest in AT&T -- so, even if I had an interest in buying the Amazon Fire phone it would have gone nowhere. I don't understand why they didn't sell an unlocked phone.
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Old 10-25-2014, 04:03 AM   #43
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When it's been around for 20 years, thus the mature company comment. Eventually investors want a little return on investment or they stop investing in it.
Again, Amazon's revenue grew 20%. That, by definition, is a "growing company." As for investors wanting to stop in investing in Amazon, we'll see how that works out.

Meanwhile analysts still think Amazon is strong ...

Quote:
Don't panic.

That's the advice many Wall Street analysts have for investors after Amazon posted a wider-than-expected third-quarter loss Thursday night and predicted soft holiday-quarter results.

...

Despite investors turning their backs on Amazon, several analysts said Friday that the long-term picture for the company remains strong, with revenue continuing to grow and Amazon likely bringing more customers into its Prime premium membership program. (Amazon, however, doesn't disclose how many customers are on Prime.) For the latest quarter, the company posted $20.6 billion in sales, up 20 percent from a year ago.
http://www.cnet.com/news/investors-f...street-doesnt/

You really do hate Amazon, don't you?
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Old 10-25-2014, 04:08 AM   #44
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But 20% more revenue is a massive grow, especially for a 20 year old company. I think it is obvious that amazon has a long time strategy.
Yep. "Long Term Strategy" doesn't compute with a lot of myopic investors but, by now, Amazon investors should know what Bezos is like. Now, if the revenue had dropped by 20%, all of P Walker's doom and gloom might have actually gone somewhere.
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Old 10-25-2014, 04:11 AM   #45
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I don't think Bezos will consider it a mature company until it sells everything from aerospace to zoology supplies.
I think you're right. After all, this is the guy who has gotten the Post Office delivering on Sunday again.
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