I Took The Plunge

[divajess]

BobR, I'm looking into the sync of Notes with Outlook, with Pocket Informant thrown in the mix. I have PI that came with a lite version of PhatNotes, which helps to organize my Notes on the PPC. I don't normally sync my Notes with Outlook but I will try tonight when I get home and see what kind of help I can give you.

As far as backups, the ActiveSync backup, in my opinion, SUCKS. I just can't abide by the slowness. That's why I use Sprite Backup. It takes about 3 minutes to backup everything to my card. Then I'll do the backup to the PC about once a week, and backup my cards too.

PI, to my knowledge, backs itself up when you close it completely. I don't get that message on mine, though.

I honestly think it depends on what you start out with. I was only with Palm briefly and then I got a PPC and have used one ever since. I can't abide by the way the Palm OS is set up, but like I said, I have used PPC pretty exclusively. There's going to be floundering and disappointment on either side when you're used to something else.

It really is too bad that Palm can't keep up on the hardware side if their OS is supposedly so good. Then I'd be willing to try one out.

I promise more info from me and a complete write up of my beautiful Dell is forthcoming...these past two weeks have just been super busy for me. Nice to see that you're getting what you need done, Bob!!!! (Go 'Stangs!)

[divajess]

Originally Posted by doctorow

Wait until more of us MobileRead users own a PPC... it's obvious which site will be the best resource then

So does that mean that you're going to replace your beloved Palm device in your "gadget bag" with a PPC? ;-)

[Bob Russell]

Jess,
I did get PhatNotes with my PI also, but if I want to synchronize to the PC, it seems to take another upgrade. Plus, it would be nice to be able to stick with stuff that's a part of basic Outlook functionality. The more I specialize stuff, the harder it is to deal with product changes on the HW or SW side.

As far as PPC vs Palm, I'm noticing things are also a bit slower on my PPC than on my old Palm (despite the hardware being about 10 times faster!!!!) I really do think PalmOS is much more well thought out in terms of keeping things simple and straightforward. PPC is annoying with it's documents lists that show title, size, date but all I really want to see is the title across the full screen. And programs seem to have a lot more relevant options in Palm, but irrelevant stuff in PPC. PPC seems to do more stuff "hidden behind the scenes" so I feel a little less confident about what's happening on the PDA than with my Palm.

Bottom line is that I'm convinced now it's mostly a preference thing, and whatever you get ingrained in your way of doing things is going to be your favorite because you do lose a lot when you switch sides (either direction.) You seem to be able to do a bit more with PPC, but you seem to be able to do it simpler and quicker with PalmOS. I think whichever platform gets the best 3rd party developer support will win in the long run!

But like you say, the Palm hardware can't seem to keep up with PPC specs, and even worse, the one Palm PDA I've been waiting so long for had a bunch of bugs. Kind of sent me the message that I'd better look at alternatives. Unfortunately, the trip feels more like a move to a new PPC house in another country with a new job than the kind of fun summer trip to a PPC hotel like I expected! I still like PalmOS better (minus the bugs in the T5), but now that I'm almost converted, there's no turning back. It would be doubling the nightmare. I think I understand what women say about not wanting another baby after just delivering. It may take me a while before I try another switch. This baby may not be as tough as a real one, but it has become way too painful to think about doing twice unless PPC completely fails me!

BTW, those 'Stangs are underdogs by almost 28pts this weekend! Not quite like the glory days, but hey, they can't go anywhere but up!

[doctorow]

Originally Posted by divajess

So does that mean that you're going to replace your beloved Palm device in your "gadget bag" with a PPC? ;-)

Definitely, as soon as I can spare some money to afford it. I am aiming for one of those VGA PPCs!

[divajess]

Originally Posted by BobR

Jess,
Unfortunately, the trip feels more like a move to a new PPC house in another country with a new job than the kind of fun summer trip to a PPC hotel like I expected!

That is the best analogy ever. LOL!

BTW, those 'Stangs are underdogs by almost 28pts this weekend! Not quite like the glory days, but hey, they can't go anywhere but up!

The 'Stangs have been underdogs ever since they got caught paying players...hehehe! The last time I saw them win was the game they played against Kansas when the new stadium opened. I had such high hopes that year, because the team looked really good in that game. Alas, it was a fluke. I haven't been to a game since, not even before I graduated.

[Bob Russell]

Well, I've finally done it... I've pretty much got everything on my PPC and the Palm is sitting idle. (But I don't dare let it out of arm's reach yet!)

The real test will come next week when I go back to work and I'll see if I can make it work for me in the "real" world. I feel okay about it so far, but there are some areas that I'm still uncomfortable with...

1) Input - I'm pretty much depending on a fitaly demo right now, but I think I'm going to plunk down a few bucks for registration unless I find a better alternative before it runs out. There's still a few things I haven't tried. I might also get that full screen software keyboard instead of an external keyboard. It should be good for document typing or long notes. Probably not so good for quick screen entries, though. One less thing to carry. I can finger peck pretty fast, and the screen protector should keep the screen nice even if I beat it up a bit.
One problem I'm facing is that I get an infrequent, but common double strike on the regular screen keyboard and with fitaly. Anyone ever experience that, or know if there's a way to fix it?
2) File locations - I'm not real comfortable yet with where everything is, and even less comfortable with where programs look for files, and how to set that up. This will take a little time. iSilo is the biggest problem for me right now, but I'm pretty confident that will work its way out. Some combinations of folders and shortcuts and categories should certainly be enough to solve that issue.
3) Backups - Doing an activesync backup followed by a copy of FlashROM followed by a copy of my SD card is not quick and easy. I'll look into other options later.
4) Magic Button - I don't know why, but I seem to close it accidently whenever I try to use it. Or maybe it conflicts with the Toshiba app I use, which is kind of combo close utility, today app and launcher.
5) AvantGo - It runs really slow and in my opinion awkwardly in Pocket IE. But on the positive side, I did figure out that you can keep the sync channel live and leave the settings...properties...connect to server checkbox unchecked until I really want to sync. That is a quick change that doesn't force activesync to do it's slow "wonder if anything changed that I need to know about" routine.
6) I'm going to miss some of the miscellaneous programs I got used to having. The biggest one is Patience, which is the best solitaire game I've seen on any platform and it's freeware. The neat thing about it is that you can play a card in just about any situation by double-tapping it. Plus it's simple to use, easy to see the cards and it's responsive. Others are utilities that do tips, counting, scorekeeping, stopwatch, etc.
7) Pocket Informant - It looks nice, but I haven't really used it. Especially when I really need it.
8) eSword is nice and I love the commentaries and dictionaries integrated with it. I even discovered the Modern KJV that I didn't know about before. But it is relatively slow to start up. My old Clie with MyBible was much zippier.
9) The whole memopad/notes thing is disappointing. Mostly because it seems I have to use folders to organize them instead of categories like in outlook on the desktop. Kind of a pain. I may have to splurge on seperate software for this also. Only thing is that I "have to" have a desktop for this and I'd rather it be Notes in Outlook. Might have to rethink that, though, because Notes in Outlook aren't especially great either. Maybe I'll try PhatNotes pro with the desktop and since it does hierarchies, maybe I can replace both Notes and Noterrific. BTW Noterrific is a really slick and very simple outliner with desktop companion that's freeware! Nothing will satisfy me after the wonderful ShadowPlan, but Noterrific will do for now.
10) That nagging feeling like I have to think more and work harder everytime I try to do anything on my PPC. I don't think it will go away completely, but it should get better. I guess I'm always going to be a Palm biggot deep inside Unless another great platform pops up, e.g. if some form of Linux PDA supporting touch screen PDAs becomes popular and gets a lot of available software.
11) The other nagging feeling of all the software I'm leaving behind. I didn't really use any of the other stuff that much, but you know how it is when you don't have something. You feel like your missing it even if you wouldn't use it!
12) Finally, the whole "can I really use it quickly without too much distraction when I really need it?" Time will tell!

And for some balance, things I like about my new PPC...
1) It's fun to have a new toy
2) It's great hardware. Nice feel to it. Charging light. Cool up down switch kind of like the old Clie thumbwheels, but better. Decent battery. It's just fun to use. Nice bright screen. And like Craig said, I am starting to get used to reading on it. But VGA would be better...
3) I can now use a 1gig storage card. I like the flexibility. If my internal Flash ROM was bigger (e.g. about 256meg) then I could keep everything "important" internally and swap out SD cards at will. As it is, I had to do some installs on the SD card and keep some basic stuff like pdfs and iSilo docs and ebooks there, so I don't know how upset Windows ME would get if it tried to find something missing. (Or if it would "remember" it's not there next time and mess me up later.)
4) Some things are much more powerful. The better hardware is not completely wasted with MS inefficiencies
5) I'm using a current OS now. I had been using PalmOS4 and watching the world pass me by with all the OS5-only apps coming out. Even though this PPC is not a recent model, I'm running 2003SE, and haven't seen anything that I can't use except for programs that need wireless, of course.
6) There's sure to be a lot I can do on this PDA that I haven't discovered yet. I look forward to find things that are helpful.
7) I discovered a couple new games. Bought a copy of Gamebox Asia and Gamebox Gems. Pretty nice. Don't know if they have staying power, but they're great entertainment for now. I think I'll limit myself on the games. Both $$ and time are too scarce to be wasting them on games, even though it's very tempting!
8) I like using Outlook on the desktop, and have set up my PPC to do mail sending and receiving when I dock with the desktop. I did it for a while on my Clie, but it was more trouble than it was worth so I removed it.
9) eWallet is working out well.
10) Adobe Reader is not perfect, but at least it's usable on my PPC. That's a nice benefit. The extra speed really helps out here. Still slow, but okay. On my Clie it was unbearable. I'd get something like Repligo, but the $$ are adding up too fast.
11) I transferred my Handy Shopper stuff from Palm by just copying the database over to PPC. Pretty neat!!!!!
12) It gets me a cool PDA when PalmOne didn't really have any models that suited me (because the T5 had some problems on rollout), and future models will probably have their own problems because of OS6/Cobalt compatibility issues. I never would have switched if PalmOne made a decent T5-like PDA, but having to wait so long and then finding all the problems with it and the high price were just too much. I'm glad I made the switch, but I really miss PalmOS.

BTW, anyone still reading this and finding it interesting? I'm having fun writing it, but I know the posts are growing long, so I should probably stick to just a few short comments if people aren't getting anything out of this. It's always hard to tell what people are interested in, or want to see.

[Brian]

Bob,

Very interesting read: You confirm a lot of my personal observations and suspicions about what such a 'switch' would be like. Your mention of the different conventions, higher number of steps to accomplish similar tasks, etc. goes right to the heart of the Zen of Palm philosophy as you mention, and how the Windows Mobile Edition is more of a scaled down desktop OS, and not really optimized for a handheld device.

If you've been reading Julie's diary at The Gadgeteer after her review of the HP hx4700, the two of you are in a similar situation. While she 'switched' to a high-end PPC and you chose to take advantage of a great bargain, she is stuggling with the decision to switch back, waiting for a PalmOne Cobalt device.

IMO one of the main reasons behind the difference between the Palm OS and PPC philosophies is the men behind them. Gates' background is the desktop, and Hawkins is the handheld. Another important observation I'd like to point out is that besides handhelds/PDAs, Jeff Hawkins other great passion is the study of the human brain. He has recently co-authored On Intelligence, and I think this really shows his philosophy about designing computing devices and their operating systems:

My desire is not only to understand what intelligence is and how the brain works, but how to build machines that work the same way. I want to build truly intelligent machines.

I totally agree with him and think that operating systems should be intuitive, simple, and work along the lines of the way we think, organize, and remember things. That's in stark contrast to building an unintuitive/counter-intuitive, overly complicated OS and trying to learn to how the OS 'thinks' and works.

In my opinion, the trouble switching that you're experiencing (along with others) can be boiled down to these basic differences. It's all about the man-machine interface on both the ergonomics and OS/GUI levels.

Brian

[cbarnett]

Originally Posted by BobR

1) Input - I'm pretty much depending on a fitaly demo right now, but I think I'm going to plunk down a few bucks for registration unless I find a better alternative before it runs out. There's still a few things I haven't tried. I might also get that full screen software keyboard instead of an external keyboard. It should be good for document typing or long notes. Probably not so good for quick screen entries, though. One less thing to carry. I can finger peck pretty fast, and the screen protector should keep the screen nice even if I beat it up a bit.
One problem I'm facing is that I get an infrequent, but common double strike on the regular screen keyboard and with fitaly. Anyone ever experience that, or know if there's a way to fix it?

You don't like the built-in block recogniser? It's so close to Palm's graffiti that I thought you'd use it by default.

Originally Posted by BobR

BTW, anyone still reading this and finding it interesting? I'm having fun writing it, but I know the posts are growing long, so I should probably stick to just a few short comments if people aren't getting anything out of this. It's always hard to tell what people are interested in, or want to see.

Please keep the posts coming. I'm enjoying your comments and point of view on the change. I think mine was far less painful, from the looks of it. I'd been palm only for ages, but the first time I played with a PPC, it just clicked, and I thought, "this is what I want!". I've never looked back, and can't see myself ever getting another palm os machine.

Craig.

[Bob Russell]

Originally Posted by cbarnett

You don't like the built-in block recogniser? It's so close to Palm's graffiti that I thought you'd use it by default.

I find I get too many errors with it. Anyone have a manual on the best strokes to get reliable entry. (I had to learn all the tricks for graffiti also, like backward "v"s, etc.) I don't mind using a few "code-like" letters, but I don't want to have to correct a lot of errors.

Originally Posted by cbarnett

Please keep the posts coming. I'm enjoying your comments and point of view on the change. I think mine was far less painful, from the looks of it. I'd been palm only for ages, but the first time I played with a PPC, it just clicked, and I thought, "this is what I want!". I've never looked back, and can't see myself ever getting another palm os machine.

Craig.

I guess I've expressed a lot of complaints over the last week, but I also have to say that I've getting over the hump and have to consider the transition pretty successful since I have solved most of my problems in the first week, despite not even looking at it for a few days while away on vacation. Plus loads and loads of info are converted, some painstakingly by cut and past into a different format or application. Getting that data rearranged and moved was the most frustrating part. And rearranging it one way only to find out that the software couldn't do it like it expected and having to rearrange it all over again was frustrating.

I can't imagine that feeling of "this is what I want" yet -- that's how I felt about the Clie when I got that! I wonder if there's just something deep down in us, maybe genetic, that determines if we're PPC or PalmOS lovers!?

One key to me feeling better about things is that I'm now relatively okay with PocketInformant's address book and task list. (Althought I still wonder how easily I'll be able to work with those entries. And I don't know what that task group heading "none" is all about, but it may even turn out to be useful.)

And the most annoying thing about Outlook and PPC had to be the way it handled notes, plus the lack of a Shadow-like program. The very most important functionality in a PDA for me is Contacts, Tasks, Notes and an outliner. It has to be simple, easy to use without thinking, and I need to know exactly what's happening to all my data and be able to depend on it without worry.

Outlook Notes was too limited and I always felt like it was putting my data at risk. For example, if you move the notes files away from the PPC my document folder on RAM, it loses track of them. If you drag from one category to another on Outlook, you get multiple categories. And it's not hard to lose the categories altogether. I think that happened to me when I moved the files. Plus you can't nest folders in mydocuments on the PPC ram. I guess I can't complain too much about that since Palm doesn't have any folders, but on PPC it matters because the grouping for notes on the PPC is based on folders. Not being able to go a folder deeper means that the directories in my documents that have nothing to do with notes are shown on the notes screen in PocketInformant, and the categories which are the basis of organizing notes in Outlook seem to be nearly useless on the PPC. Not a great solution for one of my most important uses of a PDA.

But I'm happy now, because I'm using Tombo for my notes. It's sort of a hierarchical notes application that's very straightforward and simple and fast and easy to use. And the data is stored in text docs in folders in a way that's really easy to work with and matches exactly what you see on the screen. I've had no problems yet with it, and it looks great. It even has a great desktop version of the app, and it's free. That's a perfect Memopad replacement for me, and I'm absolutely thrilled to get rid of Outlook notes!!!! A wonderful program that may just save the PPC experience for me.

For Shadow replacement, I'm using Noterrific. It's not fancy, but that's okay. A really great program that also simple and straightforward. The data is stored in simple XML, so for example, when I wanted to combine a few outlines I could just edit the files by hand in a couple of minutes. No linking to tasks like Shadow, and the split screen option for the screen split between outline and text notes is limited to a few positions it cycles through when you tap on the dividing line. No button to toggle between outline and text note views. But that's no big deal. Just like Tombo, it looks great on the screen also. Very Palm-like! But simple minded. You do also have to pick your chosen icon for each new item (it doesn't pick one automatically based on what level of the hierarchy you're in), but that's also no big deal to me (I think!) Oh yeah, this one is also free, and it includes a great desktop app also.

So for all you ex-Palm users reading this... if you miss the simplicity, nice screen displays and ease of use from ShadowPlan and MemoPad in the Palm world, these apps are great places to start. I'm not to sure why they haven't been heralded as the saving grace of PPC. Maybe they're only so delightful to those that love the way a Palm works and want to keep some of that on PPC?

Everything else is really either fluff, or something I already feel is well-handled like e-sword or the ebook readers. The screen is growing on me and to be honest I think the 240x320 screens were a stroke of genius. They are adequate somehow even though they have less than hires 320x320 on the Palm. VGA would, of course, be really nice though.

Plus I'm starting to like the way things actually seem more organized and out in the open for PPC. Less hidden files. Only the registry and shortcuts, basically. The rest is in nice neat folders where they should be, and MS has even kept things pretty simple for the most part. I'm having great success installing/unstalling/reinstalling/etc. with no problem, and for the most part I think I'm able to find and clear out things that are no longer needed. On Palm you have a slowly-increasing junkpile of files that you really don't know what they are or how they got there.

PPC is growing on me daily as I learn more how to use it more effectively and simply to do the things I need to do. So far so good. I still miss my Palm, but things like being able to use Pocket Streets and Trips 2002 on my PPC as well as on the desktop, which I already use. In fact, it surprised me when I first sent a map over to my PPC and it was so much more useful and complete and functional than I ever hoped for! Things like that make you not even consider turning back. Unless the basic PIM and input stuff drives me crazy, of course!

Thanks guys for expressing interest in my comments. I know they're not always as clear or organized as they ought to be, but when I'm done I still hope to organize them into a summary form that's easier to read.

And to keep you up to date on my latest find, I just found PocketDict with an older Webster's Unabridged Dictionary. Looks great. Not a perfect interface, but it's free! Ain't life grand!!!!

[Bob Russell]

Another interesting update on this adventure into the PPC world. I've now got two Toshiba e405s, but the second one is on the verge of costing me $299!

Bear with me. I'll get to that. But first of all, I want to update the PPC situation in general.

I'd have to say I'm pretty much hooked on Pocket PC now, even though Palm is my sentimental favorite. With all the rumors of new models with LOTS of internal memory, a return to Palm is very tempting. I didn't want to leave Palm originally, and now that I'm settled into PPC, I don't want to leave that either... but that doesn't mean I won't!

The things that are not on Palm that I would miss most are:
* Pocket Informant (This could be the main hurdle. It's really nice. Palm should commission a version of it on PalmOS!)
* Tombo - a wonderful note management system. I have a copy of PhatNotes and have tried lots of other alternatives. This is by far the best if you can live with text only notes. It has a nice desktop app, but you can also edit the text files with notepad from your synched files directory. This is simple, but among the all time best PPC apps in my opinion. I really hope it will be maintained over time because I haven't found an alternative that I am comfortable with.
* Sprite Backup -- It works just like it should and seems reliable and lets me control things like what gets backed up, and automatic scheduled backups at night, and how many old backup copies to keep, and has auto execute backup files that don't require the app to be installed, and lets me control where the files are stored. Basically, it does what all backup programs should do, and it does it well.
* Wisbar Advance -- This adds a great cascading menu, and does my task switching and management and more. It's awesome.
* Multitasking -- I didn't think this would matter to me, but now I think I'm convinced I like it.
* BetaPlayer -- This is awesome software and plays MPEG-4 files great. You can speed up or slow down playback (if you are willing to have pitch change in the audio, that is), you can easily set the zoom, you can drag the bar to any location, and like the other programs above, it just works great.

I like all these programs because you aren't left wondering about all kinds of uncertainties about where things are stored, what the program did behind the scenes, etc, etc. They just work and leave you with no worries. There's not a lot of "hidden" stuff to worry about, so you get peace of mind and don't have to remember a whole lot to use them.

Many other programs I love are not mentioned above because they are available on both Palm and PPC, like eWallet, HandyShopper (although I don't know if the author will keep up PalmOS support now that he's switched to PPC himself), eReader, iSilo/iSiloX, etc.

Okay, so now the "interesting bit"... I sent my original Toshiba back for service in Dec. They sent me a replacement PDA and a shipping label to return the defective one. Done deal, right? Well, no. I just today got it back in the mail. Refused because of no serial number. But I had all the paperwork done properly, and th serial number was part of the pre-printed label. It is hard to read on the PDA, and I had discussed it with the cust srvc rep, and he was able to deduce the missing numbers, but I guess it didn't get onto the repair tag label. Anyway, I did my part to the letter.

So now I get it back and call Toshiba because they had told me I would be charged about $300 if I didn't send back my unit. Now I'm told that multiple people are calling about the same issue, and one person have even called this cust srvc rep earlier today about it. But he said not to worry. I wouldn't be charged, and the case was closed anyway. But he gave me another number to call if I wanted to follow-up just to be sure, and suggested I check my credit card statements if I wanted to be certain.

I went back to check my records, and horror or horrors, there was a $299 charge on my credit card in January that I had missed! No other notification was given to me by Toshiba, either. I called that person, who by the way was supposed to be the head guy in headquarters relative to returns, and was only able to leave a message describing the situation and that the charge needs to be removed. I hope he deals with this promptly and efficiently. And, to be honest, after all the hassle this thing has caused me, I hope they just wipe out the charge and let me keep the old PDA. It's not much use to them any more unless they are either doing a bulk sale of leftovers, or if they are still getting enough repair requests that they need another to satisfy repair needs. But I think it's almost worthless to them, and I don't want to go through the whole process one more time after they screwed up like that.

But the PDA would be useful to me, I guess. For one thing, it might let me get to data by using a Sprite Backup recovery file on it if I step on the other PDA and break it in half or lose it or something. For another thing, I have to wonder if maybe it was a software problem that may not recur now that I have a more stable set of programs that I'm sticking with. I.e. the PDA might really not have a problem like I thought it did. Well, I do think it's still defective, but what I'm saying is that there's an outside chance it's okay.

So, we'll see how Toshiba handles this. I could end up with a backup PDA, or I could end up with a nightmare trying to eliminate the charge and get the PDA returned again. Will let you know...

[cbarnett]

Good luck! Sounds like you'll need it....

Craig.

[Bob Russell]

The Toshiba guy was pretty prompt. Called me yesterday, told me he'd credit my credit card and gave me a FedEx acct number to ship the original PDA back to him. The whole thing's a pain in the neck, but all in all, they've treated me decently except for the mixup with my returned PDA.

Toshiba did have a WinME2003 ROM upgrade to SE, which is amazing. And they still are offering good support even for a line of PDAs that's been nixed for quite a while. I suppose I'd consider buying another Toshiba PDA in the future, except oh yeah, they stopped offering PDAs in the US. They sold one in Canada recently, but that might be the end of the line for them. Maybe a smart phone or something else I don't want will replace PDAs.

But Canada and not the US? What's up with all the rejection of the US market for PDAs? Are they afraid of competition with Dell? Is there some govt regulation I don't know about that makes it miserable to do business in the US? Or is the PDA market really that soft in the US? Crazy...