Apple-Booklamp: a third front in the war?

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by eschwartz

You are arguing for iBooks as a reader app for sideloaded books. When did I say iBooks is evil as a reader for sideloaded books?

I said iBooks is evil as an ebookstore.



I really am confused as to what point you are trying to make.

iBooks is evil for just existing. It's a nasty piece of work.

I am not bashing Apple per say. Just iBooks and everything to do with iBooks.

[eschwartz]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

iBooks is evil for just existing. It's a nasty piece of work.

I am not bashing Apple per say. Just iBooks and everything to do with iBooks.

Even purely as an ereader app? Look, I'm not saying that I personally like iBooks. But I do know one or two people who use it as a convenient app for opening and reading books. Marvin is 1000X better, obviously. But they didn't really want to spend money on an ereader app (both are pbook readers by habit, which I vow to change ) and iBooks was handly, and they sideload some PD books I got them -- plus a loan that I strictly avoided reading for the duration and had them delete -- and it wasn't a BAD reading app. I didn't like the idea so much because I was afraid they might end up buying from iBooks, which would be an unmitigated disaster, but that isn't the same thing.

iBooks reads regular old EPUB2 books no problem, and does a fairly decent job. I did notice all my hard work in plugboarding series info into the title went undone as there seems to be NO WAY UNDER HEAVEN to show the entire title...

[pwalker8]

Originally Posted by eschwartz

I cannot possibly care what you think of that statement, as it wasn't meant as anything more than a joke between two likeminded people. When I want to say something to you, I will come up with actual arguments that have a point.

Of course not, that's why you keep throwing out insults and strawman arguments.

[Mivo]

I don't really agree with the article's claim that Amazon's "stranglehold on the ebook market" is "in a very large part to self-publishing writers". Is this based on figures and facts, or is it just opinion?

Most of the self-published stuff I've read is "OK", but often shows that it never had to go through the slush pile, and that it wasn't properly edited. In my uneducated view, Amazon is so overwhelmingly successful because of their aggressive competitiveness, consumer-friendliness, responsive customer service, huge selection of (non-self-published) books, devices that are sold at or below manufacturing costs, and overall low prices. Amazon was dominating force even before the self-publishing fad set in.

Meanwhile, other companies are busy sabotaging themselves, unable to improve their web shopping experience (compare Kobo's web interface to Amazon's), ignoring their customers, and generally doing their hardest to drive people into Amazon's wide-open arms by being passive, incompetent, and difficult.

There is also the issue of Amazon's reputation: it's mostly very good, and people tend to buy stuff where "everyone" buys it -- after all, if everyone shops there, it must be a good place. Most people are loyal to their regular stores, unless someone else offers substantially (and consistently) better service or prices. No one does. Their dominating market position is self-fueling to a degree.

I am not an Amazon customer, but I can appreciate their keen understanding of how to run a successful business.

[eschwartz]

Originally Posted by pwalker8

Of course not, that's why you keep throwing out insults and strawman arguments.

I throw out insults and strawman arguments when making jokes to likeminded people and save the intellectual debate for when I argue with people like you. You throw out strawman arguments and insults when arguing with people like me -- for example, to discredit me in general by conflating my jokes with my intellectual arguments. But then again, you seem convinced we should "just title this thread the Apple Hater's bashing thread", not that you gave any particular reasons there. Seems an awful lot like an insult to me.

And I wonder who gained a reputation (in another not-so-distant thread) for straw men while repeatedly misrepresenting everyone else's posts (as long as they are derogatory about Apple) and quoting only the parts of them that make people sound stupid....

[fjtorres]

Originally Posted by Mivo

I don't really agree with the article's claim that Amazon's "stranglehold on the ebook market" is "in a very large part to self-publishing writers". Is this based on figures and facts, or is it just opinion?

Most of the self-published stuff I've read is "OK", but often shows that it never had to go through the slush pile, and that it wasn't properly edited.

Well, now, maybe you have been unlucky in your choices.

Amazon may or not have a stranglehold on the "ebook market" but indie titles do make up a big portion of Kindle ebook sales--39% of unit sales or thereabouts.
(NOOK is ln record saying indies make over over a quarter of their sales, and Kobo isn't too far behind. So indies are important to everybody selling ebooks. )

Best guess is they make up anywhere from a quarter to a third of the 3Million commercial titles in the Kindle catalog. Half a million of those titles also happen to be exclusive to Kindle. Which means that for people open to the concept of reading indie titles, Amazon offers half a million reasons to go with them.

Now, you need to bear in mind that "indie" titles, even the truly self-published ones, includes a broad spectrum of books, many (most?) of which have in fact had to "go through the slush pile" (which doesn't exist anymore) and were traditionally "vetted" and published at some point in the past. One reason the indie market has exploded in the past four years is that a lot of them are backlist titles that the corporate publishers reverted because they couldn't make money (for themselves, much less the authors) selling them. Which in some cases meant books selling maybe 10,000 copies a year at $9-15. Those same books often sell much much better at $2.99 and keep on selling year after year.

Unlike what you may have heard, most self-published titles these days are professionally edited, formatted, and proofed, and have professionally produced covers, often by the very same freelance personnel traditional publishers outsource to. The publisher of record for most indie titles may be the author but that does not mean the author carries out the entire publishing process, only that the author is the paymaster and retains total control and ownership.

There is an entire "shadow" industry of freelance professionals suppotting savvy authors willing to bet a few hundred dollars on their own titles and make a middle-class living writing. And, much as in traditional publishing, there are a few dozen good enough to make millions by betting on themselves. The best estimates I've seen peg the entire indie ebook market at well over a billion dollars a year, with a couple hundred million more out of indie pbooks and audio books.

There is big money in (good) indie titles and good indie writers have taken note of it. The one big problem they (and all non-millionaire celebrity authors) face is visibility. Getting their books before the readers who might properly appreciate their style and their subjects, whether it be romance or SF, erotica or children's fairy tales.

That is one thing Booklamp's technology aspires to provide for all books, indie and tradpub and, since Apple now owns it, it might provide a more indie-friendly environment at the iBookstore.
Or it might not.

The idea is...debatable.

Edit: if you've made it this far, check these:

http://janefriedman.com/2014/08/05/leap-to-indie/

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/michae...b_5647391.html

And especially this:

http://www.hughhowey.com/the-liliana-nirvana-technique/

Those are just a few of the testimonials popping up this week. Just lurking in one authors forum I see maybe a dozen every week. The names may not be familiar to you (most aren't to me) but they are industry veterans known to other writers. So the message is spreading: if you can write good books, you can make a living at it.

http://www.thepassivevoice.com/07/20...heir-day-jobs/

But you have to go indie. Which isn't for everybody.

[pwalker8]

Originally Posted by eschwartz

I throw out insults and strawman arguments when making jokes to likeminded people and save the intellectual debate for when I argue with people like you. You throw out strawman arguments and insults when arguing with people like me -- for example, to discredit me in general by conflating my jokes with my intellectual arguments. But then again, you seem convinced we should "just title this thread the Apple Hater's bashing thread", not that you gave any particular reasons there. Seems an awful lot like an insult to me.

And I wonder who gained a reputation (in another not-so-distant thread) for straw men while repeatedly misrepresenting everyone else's posts (as long as they are derogatory about Apple) and quoting only the parts of them that make people sound stupid....

I see, when you insult people and use strawman arguments, then you are just joking. You sure seem to joke a lot. Vague accusations seem to be popular with you as well.

My point with the Apple Bashers thread comment is that most of the comments were more "I don't like Apple because..." rather than addressing the post that started the thread, which was about Apple purchasing a company and what implications that might have on independent authors. I certainly could have been more diplomatic about it.

[pwalker8]

Originally Posted by rdfry

And you are an unmitigated Apple shill with blinders on.

Wow, such an intellectual and well reasoned response. Why don't we just jump to the "your mother" insults and save some time.

[eschwartz]

Originally Posted by pwalker8

I see, when you insult people and use strawman arguments, then you are just joking. You sure seem to joke a lot. Vague accusations seem to be popular with you as well.

My point with the Apple Bashers thread comment is that most of the comments were more "I don't like Apple because..." rather than addressing the post that started the thread, which was about Apple purchasing a company and what implications that might have on independent authors. I certainly could have been more diplomatic about it.

No, when I make jokes I make jokes. (To someone with a sense of humor it might be more noticeable, but it seems your sense of humor was surgically removed and replaced with an apple.) I make plenty of pointed sharp accusations with direction the rest of the time.

It had nothing to do with diplomacy. Internet forum threads are renowned for their tendency to go off track and get completely derailed, and we are actually doing quite well to keep it on Apple at all. Your ridiculous belief that every post here must be in answer to the OP is extra ridiculous. Heck, we even provided a more-or-less sound logical flow from one to the other.

"Apple bashing" would make a lot more sense if we weren't engaging in legitimate gripes about a mostly-related issue. You weren't undiplomatic, you were flat-out wrong.

Amazing how I am full of insults and strawman arguments, and you are merely undiplomatic.

[eschwartz]

Originally Posted by pwalker8

Wow, such an intellectual and well reasoned response. Why don't we just jump to the "your mother" insults and save some time.

An intellectual and well-reasoned response to an intellectual and well-reasoned statement. Oh, wait. Wrong on both counts. For details, see above.

[pwalker8]

Originally Posted by eschwartz

"Apple bashing" would make a lot more sense if we weren't engaging in legitimate gripes about a mostly-related issue. You weren't undiplomatic, you were flat-out wrong.

Amazing how I am full of insults and strawman arguments, and you are merely undiplomatic.

Mostly related? Well, maybe if you want to claim that they all reference Apple and that makes them related, but I'm not sure what DRM has to do with Apple purchasing a company that generates book recommendations or indie authors. That's 3rd cousin twice removed sort of related though, IMPO.

Hey, we each have our own talents. I'm undiplomatic, you are full of insults and strawman arguments.

[eschwartz]

Originally Posted by pwalker8

Mostly related? Well, maybe if you want to claim that they all reference Apple and that makes them related, but I'm not sure what DRM has to do with Apple purchasing a company that generates book recommendations or indie authors. That's 3rd cousin twice removed sort of related though, IMPO.

Hey, we each have our own talents. I'm undiplomatic, you are full of insults and strawman arguments.

Additionally, you are full of insults and strawman arguments. And I am aggressively undiplomatic in a deliberate fashion.

You also quoted half my reply (the less important half) and completely ignored the whole point I was making, which is the absolute pathetic failure of your claim that you were merely being "undiplomatic" by accusing us of Apple bashing. If you'd like, you can refer back to that post, a mere 3 posts before this one, and reread it to see what you've missed. But at this point, I'm afraid I've rather given up on trying to pound that simple fact through your thick skull. In fact, I think you have officially won the

This post has been excommunicated by the MobileRead Reading Comprehension Police for having nothing to do with anything anyone said. Members of MobileReaders Against Reading Incomprehension should refrain from responding to this post, and any future posts by this member, until such posts get back in touch with reality.

To the poster:
Please reread the discussion you have responded to, and make sure to understand what is actually being said, this time around.

Signed,

MobileReaders Against Reading Incomprehension

award. Good day. Bye-bye now.

[WT Sharpe]

It was a nice thread while it lasted.