Fed up with samples that don't contain anything useful

[Abtacha]

Originally Posted by DiapDealer

I've never yet downloaded a sample that DIDN'T contain enough actual text to help me with my decision to buy/not buy. I understand wanting the sample to contain more of the book's text, but I think if you're honest with yourself; most times you got what you needed to pull the trigger or not.

Not in those few cases where I tried Kobo's samples, Amazon's usually work fine for me though.

[Mike L]

Originally Posted by DiapDealer

... most times you got what you needed to pull the trigger or not.

I don't say I never get the text of the actual book. But I do say that I often don't get enough text to make a decision. If that was not so, there wouldn't be a problem.

Mike

[DiapDealer]

Originally Posted by Mike L

I don't say I never get the text of the actual book. But I do say that I often don't get enough text to make a decision. If that was not so, there wouldn't be a problem.

Mike

Fair enough. But here's my question: how much text would you say that you need then, to make a decision? Surely you're not saying that skipping the front-matter would always give you what you require. So forgetting about the front-matter entirely, how much of the book's text would suffice?

I, myself, am not really even looking for a whole chapter when sampling. By the time I'm ready to sample, I'm usually only performing a quick competence check--and maybe looking to get a bit of a feel for the style. So they've all been more helpful to me than no sample would have been.

[Mike L]

Originally Posted by DiapDealer

But here's my question: how much text would you say that you need then, to make a decision?

Good question. I would say at least three or four pages in most cases. Rarely a whole chapter.

But my original complaint was about samples where you don't even get three or four pages: where the entire sample is swamped with useless front-matter.

Mike

[DiapDealer]

Originally Posted by Mike L

But my original complaint was about samples where you don't even get three or four pages: where the entire sample is swamped with useless front-matter.

Seriously?! I can't remember ever getting a sample with less than three or four pages of actual text. It's usually much, much more than that, in fact. Even when there's lots of front-matter.

[QuantumIguana]

With short works, I've had samples with not one single word of the actual text.

[DiapDealer]

Originally Posted by QuantumIguana

With short works, I've had samples with not one single word of the actual text.

I can see how that would be frustrating. I guess I just never really purchase anything that short. I read lots of short-stories, but they tend to be in magazines and/or anthologies. I'm not very likely to purchase anything where 10% only gets me to the dedication.

[Mike L]

Originally Posted by DiapDealer

I can't remember ever getting a sample with less than three or four pages of actual text. It's usually much, much more than that, in fact.

Well, I mentioned one example in my original post (One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest). I've seen others too. I'll let you know next time I come across one.

Let me stress: I'm not saying this is common. I'm just saying that it's very annoying when it does happen. In fact, I've got some books where you get a complete novel or novella in the sample. That's often the case with "complete works" and "megapacks".

Mike

[BookCat]

I usually read the samples online, such as the 'look inside' feature at Amazon. I'm only checking for writing style, such as use of adjectives and adverbs, rather than the plot. This is especially true for free, self-published works: I want to know the writer can write!

I have seen samples such as Mike has mentioned, where it's all front matter (intro, table of contents, preface etc) and nothing of the novel's prose. If the author is incompetent enough to let this pass as a sample, I won't download the book, even if it's £0.00.

Does anyone remember this site:
http://page99test.com/

[eschwartz]

Originally Posted by BookCat

I usually read the samples online, such as the 'look inside' feature at Amazon. I'm only checking for writing style, such as use of adjectives and adverbs, rather than the plot. This is especially true for free, self-published works: I want to know the writer can write!

I have seen samples such as Mike has mentioned, where it's all front matter (intro, table of contents, preface etc) and nothing of the novel's prose. If the author is incompetent enough to let this pass as a sample, I won't download the book, even if it's £0.00.

Does anyone remember this site:
http://page99test.com/

Despite the fact that they aren't actually in control over how much the review is?

This 33-page (Amazon estimate) short story: http://amzn.com/B00I1LS0SE start and ends with the title page, so it's not stuffed with stupid reviews. It is not the author's fault that Amazon cut the preview to that length.

[Mike L]

Originally Posted by eschwartz

Despite the fact that they aren't actually in control over how much the review is?

When the sample is stuffed with useless front matter (acknowledgements, "about the author", "praise for", etc), that is often within the author's control (in the case of self-published books) or the publisher's control (in other cases). Simply put some or all of that stuff at the back of the book.

Mike

[rkomar]

Originally Posted by Mike L

When the sample is stuffed with useless front matter (acknowledgements, "about the author", "praise for", etc), that is often within the author's control (in the case of self-published books) or the publisher's control (in other cases). Simply put some or all of that stuff at the back of the book.

Mike

The "praise for" stuff is meant to convince browsers to buy the book, so including it in the sample makes sense from the publisher's point of view. Personally, I would prefer if that section was completely left out since I never read it, but the publishers seem to think that it's useful. I wonder if there are many book-buying rubes out there who fall for that malarkey?

[eschwartz]

Originally Posted by Mike L

When the sample is stuffed with useless front matter (acknowledgements, "about the author", "praise for", etc), that is often within the author's control (in the case of self-published books) or the publisher's control (in other cases). Simply put some or all of that stuff at the back of the book.

Mike

Which is why my example was a book whose sample is nothing but a front cover. And my first post in this thread:

Originally Posted by eschwartz

reviews should be shot at birth?

And maybe the reviewer as well, as I've never seen one that's useful.

Me: "No it's not the next Harry Potter, you lying #@!&$% this thing doesn't even have a plot! DIE FIEND!"

No I'm not joking!

[Mike L]

Originally Posted by rkomar

The "praise for" stuff is meant to convince browsers to buy the book, so including it in the sample makes sense from the publisher's point of view. Personally, I would prefer if that section was completely left out since I never read it, but the publishers seem to think that it's useful. I wonder if there are many book-buying rubes out there who fall for that malarkey?

Point taken. Like you, I never read it, but I agree that there's clearly a good reason for publishers to include it.

Originally Posted by eschwartz

reviews should be shot at birth?
And maybe the reviewer as well, as I've never seen one that's useful.

Perhaps we should distinguish professonal reviews (published in established newpapers and magazines) from the so-called reviews that appear on Amazon and elsewhere. The latter are more often comments rather than real reviews. They tell us whether the "reviewer" likes or dislikes the book, but they rarely give any critical insights as to the book's quality (with a few notable exceptions). I rarely take any notice of them. I do read "professional" reviews, but I don't even glance at the "praise for" pages, because the only thing they tell you is that the publisher is skilled at quoting arbitrary phrases out of context.

Mike

[eschwartz]

Originally Posted by Mike L

Perhaps we should distinguish professonal reviews (published in established newpapers and magazines) from the so-called reviews that appear on Amazon and elsewhere. The latter are more often comments rather than real reviews. They tell us whether the "reviewer" likes or dislikes the book, but they rarely give any critical insights as to the book's quality (with a few notable exceptions). I rarely take any notice of them. I do read "professional" reviews, but I don't even glance at the "praise for" pages, because the only thing they tell you is that the publisher is skilled at quoting arbitrary phrases out of context.

Mike

Fair enough. Just the reviewers in the books themselves. I am guilty of reviewing books to my friends all the time, and I'd rather not be shot either.