The iPad air feels lighter than the Retina Mini

Originally Posted by jocampo

You can show me 1k reports of gamut comparison and they will all say the same. But how many end users actually care about it? Not many. Most people, except a few, really care about such differences in color when they are browsing a webpage or reading a Kindle book, which by the way, most of the time is just black and white, i.e. novels.

While most people might not care or even notice a lesser gamut, photographers sure will. And from what I've seen on various photography related sites there are a lot of photographers who have incorporated tablets into their workflow. Many set them up via WiFi to show clients in near real time how the photos are looking. A Mini with depleted gamut would not work well in that scenario. Artists will also be appalled by the depleted gamut.

Originally Posted by Faterson

Does anyone know what is the gamut for iPad 3 and iPhone 4? I like both of those screens very much... but perhaps their gamut range is even lower than on iPad mini Retina?

IPad 3 and 4, iPhone 5, 5s (not sure about 5c) have 100% coverage of the sRGB gamut. Only the Mini 1 and 2 seem to be cut back to 63% coverage.

[Faterson]

Thanks, Jack. That's bad news. I love the iPad 3 screen and its vibrant colours, and I'd hate to go back to something inferior, especially given the overblown iPad mini Retina price.

I'm also delighted by the iPhone 4 screen -- a very old phone by now; I wonder what its colour gamut might be. iPhone 4 displays colours a bit differently from iPad 3, so I suspect it might be well below 100% gamut. I'd like to know the exact percentage value for iPhone 4, and how it compares with the 63% of iPad mini Retina.

More and more articles popping up about this now, all thanks to AnandTech, with many folks now calling the colours on the iPad mini Retina "washed out", which really sounds bad:

http://9to5mac.com/2013/11/18/retina...-7-and-others/
http://www.zdnet.com/retina-ipad-min...ys-7000023349/
http://www.imore.com/retina-ipad-min...tention-issues
http://www.macrumors.com/2013/11/18/...-and-accuracy/

[afv011]

Originally Posted by jocampo

You misread my post or did not understand what I said, or both.

Well, let's see:

Originally Posted by jocampo

... I would not say the colors are poor.

Originally Posted by afv011

... pictures posted by users clearly show muted colors.

Looks like I understood you pretty well.

I guess the bottom line is that if you have a need for 100% sRGB gamut coverage, or you just prefer it, then avoid the Mini 1 or 2.

However, I suspect that most people won't have that need, and would be willing to overlook the color shortcomings. If they are going to use it primarily to surf the web, play games, read, etc., it will be a great little tablet. Videos might look washed out, but that might not bother most people.

For me though, my money will go for an Air because the color shortcomings of the Mini would affect my usage.

[jocampo]

Originally Posted by jswinden

While most people might not care or even notice a lesser gamut, photographers sure will. And from what I've seen on various photography related sites there are a lot of photographers who have incorporated tablets into their workflow. Many set them up via WiFi to show clients in near real time how the photos are looking. A Mini with depleted gamut would not work well in that scenario. Artists will also be appalled by the depleted gamut.



IPad 3 and 4, iPhone 5, 5s (not sure about 5c) have 100% coverage of the sRGB gamut. Only the Mini 1 and 2 seem to be cut back to 63% coverage.

True, that's exactly my point.

And while the Retina Mini may be handy for those purposes, it is not a dedicated or special device for photography. It's actually an "all around" tablet for browsing, games, reading and reviewing or taking some pictures too.

But saying that the tablet display is poor because the differences in gamut, it's an over statement.

I'm not a fan boy, and I get a device depending of what I will use it for, support, etc. But between a Nexus and an IPad mini, I personally will take the Mini, just because the IOs ecosystem and Apple support. I would not compare the iPad air against the Nexus though, or any other 7 inches tablet. The regular iPad is a different animal. Not only bigger but more expensive as well.

[DaleDe]

You have to wonder about the reason for the different gamut. I do not believe Apple intentionally made it worse. On an LCD screen the color range is determined by the backlight and how white it is and uniformly bright. Color is determined by little filters on each dot (subpixel). Of course the filters themselves could be off but I doubt that. I suspect that getting a wider range of white needs a lamp system that consumes more power and results in a need for more powerful batteries, or accept a shorter battery life. Hardware design is all about tradeoffs, not trying to screw the customer.

Dale

I definitely agree with preferring the Apple ecosystem. With my Nexus 7.2 I am constantly annoyed by Android attempting, or allowing others to attempt, to use my data and information for less than ethical purposes. Almost every damn app that installs requires ridiculous access to your personal information. Just look at the permissions that you give Facebook on an Android device. You might as well go into a dark alley, find a criminal, hand him your wallet and the keys to your house, give him your address, then wish him good luck. Needless to say, my Nexus 7.2 has very few apps installed, and my Google calendar and contacts are as bare as a streaker at a football game. I use it for photography and reading, and little more.

I might not like a closed system like Apple's, but it is certainly much safer than dealing with devious thugs like Google and many Android apps that would steal your information in a heartbeat and sell it to the highest bidder!

[Faterson]

OK, I found it: it appears that iPhone 4 (and 4S, too) has a colour gamut of around 64%:

http://technologizer.com/2010/07/01/retina-display/
http://www.displaymate.com/Gamut_2.html
http://www.displaymate.com/Gamut_9.html
http://www.displaymate.com/iPhone_4_ShootOut.htm

(Pretty funny to observe the typical over-saturation of Samsung displays there, by the way.)

What this means: the new iPad mini Retina offers roughly the same colour gamut as iPhone 4 or 4S (phones that are over 2-3 years old today), and also roughly the same as iPad 2 (soon, a 3-year-old tablet).

An irony right there: a hardware spec connection between iPad mini Retina and iPad 2 no one would have expected these days -- suddently it "makes sense", in a twisted way, for iPad 2 to be still offered for sale with zero discount compared to 2012: after all, it shares the same colour gamut with the brand-new iPad mini Retina!

Yet you are charged an exorbitant 2013 price for iPad mini Retina, not a 2010, 2011 or 2012 price. That's a bitter pill to swallow.

Now, like I said, I'm delighted by my iPhone 4 screen, and do not find its colours "washed out" in the least (more like the opposite, in fact), despite only 64% of the colour gamut. In practice, this technical limitation never disturbed me over the years.

But, I bought that device back in 2010 -- there was no better Apple alternative back then. It was the best mobile screen Apple were offering at the time. Today, it's different, when you can buy iPad Air instead, and get the perfect screen.

I also worry that while the limited 64% colour gamut might perhaps not be very noticeable on a tiny 3.5 iPhone screen, the same gamut limitation might be a lot more noticeable on the fairly large 8-inch screen of an iPad mini Retina.

All things considered, the discovery of this flaw may well have saved me a handful of hundreds of euros. Although I'm disgusted by iOS 7, I've been seriously considering the purchase of an iPad mini Retina. Now in addition to the annoying iOS 7 and the exorbitant price, here comes the narrow colour gamut -- another powerful purchase deterrent.

[Faterson]

Originally Posted by jswinden

With my Nexus 7.2 I am constantly annoyed by Android attempting, or allowing others to attempt, to use my data and information for less than ethical purposes. Almost every damn app that installs requires ridiculous access to your personal information.

You're way off-base with your "criticism" there, Jack. If anything, Android deserves praise for being so transparent about the permissions you are politely asked to grant to apps you choose to install based on your own decision; no app is enforced on you. To think that the same or equivalent iOS apps do not take the same or equivalent permissions on iOS, is incredibly naive. It happens, but you're simply not told about it on iOS, due to iOS lacking Android's transparency. Everything you said is, in fact, a big point in favour of Android, as opposed to iOS.

[afv011]

Originally Posted by DaleDe

I suspect that getting a wider range of white needs a lamp system that consumes more power and results in a need for more powerful batteries, or accept a shorter battery life. Hardware design is all about tradeoffs, not trying to screw the customer.

Actually the mini is worse at battery consumption than the N7 (best) and the Fire, which have both 100% sRGB gamut, so sacrificing gamut for power was definitively not the reason. From what I read, the problem is the choice of going with IZGO as opposed to LTPS as the N7 and Fire do.

Display Backlight Power at Maximum Brightness:
Fire: 2.1 watts
Nexus 7: 1.4 watts
Mini: 2.3 watts

Display Backlight Power Efficiency same Peak Luminance 388 cd/m2 same 7.9 inch screen size area
Fire: 2.5 watts
Nexus 7: 2.0 watts
Mini: 2.3 watts

Source

[afv011]

Originally Posted by jswinden

I definitely agree with preferring the Apple ecosystem. With my Nexus 7.2 I am constantly annoyed by Android attempting, or allowing others to attempt, to use my data and information for less than ethical purposes. Almost every damn app that installs requires ridiculous access to your personal information. Just look at the permissions that you give Facebook on an Android device.

Care to explain how that is an Android problem and not a developer problem?

Originally Posted by jswinden

I might not like a closed system like Apple's, but it is certainly much safer than dealing with devious thugs like Google and many Android apps that would steal your information in a heartbeat and sell it to the highest bidder!

Hyperbole much?

Here are the Facebook permissions. There is no way to select which you will allow. You either bend over and select all of them, that is you install the app, or you select none by not installing the app. Android does not give you the ability to select which permissions to allow.

I seriously doubt Apple would allow most of these permissions, and you can certainly select some as in which apps can access cellular, etc.

....

[afv011]

Originally Posted by jswinden

I seriously doubt Apple would allow most of these permissions, and you can certainly select some as in which apps can access cellular, etc. ....

You don't know that, there's zero transparency on what an app can do on ios. At least, as it's been pointed out here, on Android you know and if you think the developer is overstepping, you can decide not to install the app, rather than being in the dark on what the app is able to do.

[PatNY]

Originally Posted by afv011

From what I read, the problem is the choice of going with IZGO as opposed to LTPS as the N7 and Fire do.

afv, it appears that the problem isn't the IGZO technology per se, but rather in some inferior application of it. The new iPad Air is also using IGZO and has no gamut issues. (Source)

The IGZO screen in the Air is by LG, which is interesting since it's Sharp's technology. LG likely licensed it from Sharp. So perhaps LG made improvements to IGZO or just implemented it better, and the supplier of the Mini's IGZO screens has poor quality control or some other production problems.

Regardless, it's a poor business decision by Apple to let these screens get by. True, many folks won't care or notice, but a lot will. And now the Minis are getting a bad rep for inferior components, which is inexcusable for such a premium-priced product.

But it's good to know the technology itself isn't at fault. Because consumers will benefit a lot if IGZO screens spread to more mobile devices.

--Pat

[jocampo]

Originally Posted by afv011

Actually the mini is worse at battery consumption than the N7 (best) and the Fire, which have both 100% sRGB gamut, so sacrificing gamut for power was definitively not the reason. From what I read, the problem is the choice of going with IZGO as opposed to LTPS as the N7 and Fire do.

Display Backlight Power at Maximum Brightness:
Fire: 2.1 watts
Nexus 7: 1.4 watts
Mini: 2.3 watts

Display Backlight Power Efficiency same Peak Luminance 388 cd/m2 same 7.9 inch screen size area
Fire: 2.5 watts
Nexus 7: 2.0 watts
Mini: 2.3 watts

Source

Just by chance ... do you own a Retina Mini? If you do, can you share with us how much battery life you are getting?

By the way, I find the gamut thing interesting but way off topic.

I started the thread to compare the iPad air vs Mini in terms of weight and usability. And I see lot of people posting links and making comments about gamut and differences in color, but do you actually own both?

Again, for the regular "John Doe", the differences are minimum. And I can tell you for sure that if someone get a Retina Mini without buying an iPad air, that person probably will be satisfied in terms of screen quality.

I know few users here bought a Retina Mini and they are actually satisfied with their purchases.