Amazon's love-hate for Kindle porn

[rkw]

Originally Posted by SouthernSun

I must be missing something. JK Rowling has nothing to do with this topic.

Dear gawds...seriously? :sly:

[fjtorres]

Originally Posted by Crowl

(scifi & fantasy seem like obvious ones that would be less prone to paper book fetishism than most.)

I can attest to that.

But going by my mother and her crowd, the romance readers have long been even less attached to the dead tree pulp; she and her circle would swap around entire boxes of books without much concern. Each book was a read and once read its value was in bringing other reads.
ebooks you can't swap around but they are cheaper and more readily available.

The entire romance genre, both readers and authors, rarely gets the respect it deserves as an enormous chunk of publishing. In many circles, getting "caught" reading porn might draw a smirk but nowhere near the ribbing of reading "that trashy stuff".

No single genre can claim the Kindle's success for their own. There are simply too many different reasons for its success and its appeal is too broad for that.

But still...
...Oprah.

We SF fans might have been first onboard the Kindle express (debateable but likely) but the Oprah hordes swooped in and made it a household name. And romance was definitely a factor with that crowd. And if indie publishing is striding to full respectability it is due to the genres in general and romance and SF in particular, in that order.

That Romance community has proven to be very accepting of both ebooks and indie writers.
http://writerunboxed.com/2013/07/24/...lf-publishing/

So much so that at the recent Romance Writers of America conference, for the first time ever, the once so-coveted slots to meet with publisher reps to present proposals and manuscripts went unclaimed. And not just a few but, by most reports, a lot; a massive amount of publisher time was spent listening to chirping crickets.

There is a lot of evidence emerging that the size of many, if not most, of the genres, pre-ebook, were constrained no so much by demand as by under-supply. With no gatekeepers to constrain the supply (and siphon off revenues) the size of many of the genre markets has exploded with readers and authors both benefiting from disintermediation.

The ebook disruption of publishing is far from over and porn is far from the last genre (or sub-genre) that will show surprising (to some) strength at the virtual checkout counter. There really is room for everybody in ebook-land.

[murraypaul]

Originally Posted by fjtorres

There is a lot of evidence emerging that the size of many, if not most, of the genres, pre-ebook, were constrained no so much by demand as by under-supply. With no gatekeepers to constrain the supply (and siphon off revenues) the size of many of the genre markets has exploded with readers and authors both benefiting from disintermediation.

Hmm, I think I'd say instead that demand was limited by price. In many genres, eBooks have led to books being available at significantly lower prices, and that is what has driven up demand.

[Phogg]

Originally Posted by voracious71

I've said it before,I'll say it again. Erotica is porn with words instead of pictures. I do like that that they called 50 shades and others of that ilk "porn". Badly written porn,IMO.

Porn comes from pornea which is fornication.

Porn is the same whether it is words, pictures, video, a blow up doll, or a dildo. its purpose is to sexually stimulate and upon occaision help achieve orgasm.

[Ken Maltby]

According to Kobo, that should be an Espresso Paper Bag.

Luck;
Ken

[fjtorres]

Originally Posted by murraypaul

Hmm, I think I'd say instead that demand was limited by price. In many genres, eBooks have led to books being available at significantly lower prices, and that is what has driven up demand.

Supply was, and is, constrained by publisher policies.
As a rule they don't like to publish more than two books per year from a given author. Which is why the most prolific authors have been forced to rely on pseudonyms.
They also limit availability of backlist titles which is why there is such a big used book business.
With ebooks and never out of print finding a new-to-you author doesn't automatically mean a months or years-long search for their backlist.

Out of print more often than not means lost sales.

[tompe]

Originally Posted by fjtorres

Out of print more often than not means lost sales.

Why do you think that? For paper books it seems to me that more books in print at book shops will influence the number of books sold of other books. How can you know that it means lost sales in terms of total number of books sold?

[fjtorres]

Originally Posted by tompe

Why do you think that? For paper books it seems to me that more books in print at book shops will influence the number of books sold of other books. How can you know that it means lost sales in terms of total number of books sold?

To the author it is a lost sale.
And if you're looking for a specific title and don't find it there are other things to do with the time, money, and attention. Movies, tv, video, a nice bike ride...
That is why windowing doesn't work for books.
Books don't exist in a vacuum and most don't have a "book budget" but rather an entertainment budget.

[Ken Maltby]

Originally Posted by tompe

Why do you think that? For paper books it seems to me that more books in print at book shops will influence the number of books sold of other books. How can you know that it means lost sales in terms of total number of books sold?

E-books "in print" not paper books, e-book sales as lost opportunity for a sale. That said, any interest the ebook backlist sales generates in an author's works, would often carry over into print sales. The term "total books sold" often works for the publisher or distributor and against the separate authors involved.

Luck;
Ken

[tompe]

Originally Posted by fjtorres

To the author it is a lost sale.
And if you're looking for a specific title and don't find it there are other things to do with the time, money, and attention. Movies, tv, video, a nice bike ride...
That is why windowing doesn't work for books.
Books don't exist in a vacuum and most don't have a "book budget" but rather an entertainment budget.

How can you know that? Maybe the authors last book will sell less copies if many back list books are available. Very few people are looking for specific back list titles.

And from the publishers perspective it is the total number of books they sell that are interesting.

If you read a lot of books you probably have book budget, food budget, other budgets, and entertainment budget. In that order. If you do not read a lot of books you will probably by the new books so back list book availability is not relevant.

[Angst]

Originally Posted by Catlady

How is there real privacy when Amazon knows exactly what you put on your Kindle?

Not to mention the NSA and the government!!!

[fjtorres]

Originally Posted by tompe

How can you know that? Maybe the authors last book will sell less copies if many back list books are available. Very few people are looking for specific back list titles.

And from the publishers perspective it is the total number of books they sell that are interesting.

If you read a lot of books you probably have book budget, food budget, other budgets, and entertainment budget. In that order. If you do not read a lot of books you will probably by the new books so back list book availability is not relevant.

Most people *don't* read a lot of books.
You can't extrapolate from the likes of us.
Most people don't shop for "something to read" but rather for specific books.
Casual readers aren't avid readers with a smaller book budget but rather people with other things in their life. If they don't find the title somebody told them was a good read they don't turn around and buy the next pretty cover they see; they just shrug and go on to watch a ballgame.
That is why Amazon sells used books.
For avid readers books are somewhat fungible but not for casual readers. And those folks make up some 70% of the book buying population.

[speakingtohe]

Originally Posted by tompe

How can you know that? Maybe the authors last book will sell less copies if many back list books are available. Very few people are looking for specific back list titles.

And from the publishers perspective it is the total number of books they sell that are interesting.

If you read a lot of books you probably have book budget, food budget, other budgets, and entertainment budget. In that order. If you do not read a lot of books you will probably by the new books so back list book availability is not relevant.

I'd almost rather walk barefoot on broken glass than keep track of a budget. Luckily I have managed fine without one.

I honestly can't see most people putting books before essentials budget wise though. There is always the library and/or second hand. I have known those whose first monetary priorities are sex and/or booze, but I can't see them as budgeting types saving up to buy a kindle.

Helen

Originally Posted by Alexander Turcic

Adult literature is selling well. So well, in fact, that various online booksellers, including Amazon, have been tweaking their search and rating algorithms to downplay the importance of that category.

Just a thought: the downplaying of adult literature may have little to do with the stigma attributed to the category itself. It is unwise for a company that serves a broad base of customers to appear as though they serve a paricular base of customers. Imagine what would happen if a bookstore's sales were dominated by SF&F, and their search/rating algorithms reflected that. A lot of people would look for another vendor, one that better reflected their tastes. Or imagine a clothing store in a mall that only had women's clothing in the display window, even though the store served men and women, just because that sold better. About half of your potential customers would walk straight by because they think that the store is geared towards someone else.

Now I don't know the real reasoning behind these tweaks. It may very well be social stigma. On the other hand, I find it just as likely that other factors are entering the mix.

[speakingtohe]

Originally Posted by BWinmill

Just a thought: the downplaying of adult literature may have little to do with the stigma attributed to the category itself. It is unwise for a company that serves a broad base of customers to appear as though they serve a paricular base of customers. Imagine what would happen if a bookstore's sales were dominated by SF&F, and their search/rating algorithms reflected that. A lot of people would look for another vendor, one that better reflected their tastes. Or imagine a clothing store in a mall that only had women's clothing in the display window, even though the store served men and women, just because that sold better. About half of your potential customers would walk straight by because they think that the store is geared towards someone else.

Now I don't know the real reasoning behind these tweaks. It may very well be social stigma. On the other hand, I find it just as likely that other factors are entering the mix.

Could be customer complaints or maybe they are just trying to improve their search engine.

I am not horribly offended by seeing an erotic title in the amazon list, any more than I am offended by seeing them on the NYT bestseller list, but I am much more likely to buy from a company whose search quickly returns what I am actually looking for.

Helen