Ectaco caught using MobileRead to create fake buzz about Jetbook

[tubemonkey]

Originally Posted by murg

Yes. But all we've discovered, so far, is that you like cats.

You'll never guess what I like

Originally Posted by tubemonkey

You'll never guess what I like

Cotton bananas.

[Elfwreck]

Originally Posted by Billi

Yes, it has not been necessary at all. Onyx and Pocketbook representatives are active here too, but they do it openly, without any disguise, everybody knows who they are.

I bought an Astak Pocket Pro because of RobertB's advocacy. He had told everyone he was involved in promotions for the company; he obviously loved the ereaders and was happy to tell people why he thought they were awesome. He also took complaints seriously and offered to hand them off to someone who might be able to deal with them--didn't make promises that he'd get them fixed, and didn't try to pretend the users were doing something wrong.

There's nothing wrong with workers for a company promoting their products, or even doing it here; we're happy to see employees of ereader companies involved in the conversation. But there's something downright slimy about pretending to be a random person who just "discovered" the awesomeness of [product] and is dying to share it.

Also, if anyone bought a product because of their endorsement, and isn't happy with it, they may have grounds to sue Ectaco. Not revealing a commercial tie to a review could be deceptive advertising; while most of the hype about blog and forum advertising has to do with reviewers getting free copies, employees of the company--who get directly paid for advertising--definitely have a motive to hide negative info and may be misleading potential customers.

[Xanthe]

This topic brought RobertB to my mind also. He was upfront about his relationship with Astak so you knew exactly where he was coming from when he discussed the product. But because he was open about his ties to them, he was free to discuss it honestly with folks who had questions about the device and he was respected.

I'm glad the shills were identified and steps taken against them. They abused and betrayed the face-value trust that members of a forum give to one another, something that allows forums to operate as congenial and informative places.

If you're talking up a product because you have some sort of personal/business relationship with a company, be upfront about it. I actually like knowing that I'm discussing a product with someone who either has actual experience with it or is involved with its manufacture. I like being able to pick their brains and/or better understand why they think their product is superior in some way. I understand that they're coming from a place where they're trying to encourage people to buy the product they're associated with, and I have no problem with that.

But don't take advantage of my good nature to pursue a private agenda. I was on a board once where we all knew one of the people running it as a guy in his late 20's. We knew of his émigré family, his fiancee, the weather problems he faced living in a hurricane-prone area, etc. We celebrated his birthday, send well-wishes and prayers when family members were either ill or an elder passed on. Turned out "he" was actually a "she" - someone from Kansas who was using the forum as a lab for a master's thesis in sociology. I had considered the male persona to be a friend - we had had each other's back in various contretemps on another site - but I had never gone further than that. Others, though, had been regular online live chat friends with "him" and had revealed a lot of personal details to a person they had trusted out of long association. The sense of betrayal when the truth was found out was shattering to a lot of the board members. So I have no sympathy for people who fraudulently present themselves, no matter how "nice" they might be.

[crich70]

I don't have a problem with someone advocating a product that they are associated with either as long as it is publicly declared that they are associated with it. Like Xanthe said they may know specific details about why it is a good product, but when someone hides their connection with a product and lauds its virtues you have to wonder about their honesty. i.e. if they can lie about their connection to the product (or hide that connection) what else might they bee lying about/or hiding about it?

[theducks]

Gee
I was just going to mention RobertB

There was no doubt he was a company spokes person.
In fact, he went to bat for the users to get things expedited with the company (anyone remember the wrinkled paint mess?) when the company was sluggish.

He proved you can sell a product, simply by stressing its good points.

[meeera]

Originally Posted by Elfwreck

Also, if anyone bought a product because of their endorsement, and isn't happy with it, they may have grounds to sue Ectaco. Not revealing a commercial tie to a review could be deceptive advertising; while most of the hype about blog and forum advertising has to do with reviewers getting free copies, employees of the company--who get directly paid for advertising--definitely have a motive to hide negative info and may be misleading potential customers.

This. In the USA, the FTC is very clear (as of 2009) on the matter of online endorsements and testimonials requiring clear disclosure of material connection (and of whether "results are typical").

Complaints can be entered here.

[HansTWN]

Originally Posted by meeera

This. In the USA, the FTC is very clear (as of 2009) on the matter of online endorsements and testimonials requiring clear disclosure of material connection (and of whether "results are typical").

Complaints can be entered here.

Does this apply to comments made on a forum? Or only to blogs and online magazines? Is there no grey area, if the company didn't put them up to it but it was those two guys' own idea?

It is despicable, but is it illegal in this context?

[Blossom]

Originally Posted by theducks

Gee
I was just going to mention RobertB

There was no doubt he was a company spokes person.
In fact, he went to bat for the users to get things expedited with the company (anyone remember the wrinkled paint mess?) when the company was sluggish.

He proved you can sell a product, simply by stressing its good points.

I third what every one has said about RobertB he was the reason I joined MobileReads. He was the perfect example of how a Representative of a company should behave.

Originally Posted by HansTWN

Does this apply to comments made on a forum? Or only to blogs and online magazines? Is there no grey area, if the company didn't put them up to it but it was those two guys' own idea?

It is despicable, but is it illegal in this context?

It looks like it's a database that's used to acquire evidence when an investigation is launched, and to determine whether an investigation should be launched based upon a pattern of complaints. It is the FTC's job to figure out whether forums are within the scope of consumer protection laws. It is also their job to determine whether the two guys or the company is to blame. It is doubtful that the operations of the company or lives of these guys will be inconvenienced if the complaint doesn't fit the FTC's mandate or if their actions are despicable but legal.

I would think the big question is: who, if anyone, should be launching the complaint. The forum moderators or affected consumers?

[meeera]

Originally Posted by HansTWN

Does this apply to comments made on a forum? Or only to blogs and online magazines? Is there no grey area, if the company didn't put them up to it but it was those two guys' own idea?

It is despicable, but is it illegal in this context?

I am not a USAn lawyer: but the FTC site says "... when the message is conveyed by bloggers or other “word-of-mouth” marketers.", which is pretty broad. Also, what BWinmill said. It seems anyone can lay a complaint, and the FTC will look at it if they believe it might contravene their rules.

[fjtorres]

Originally Posted by BWinmill

I would think the big question is: who, if anyone, should be launching the complaint. The forum moderators or affected consumers?

Consumers would have more standing, I suspect.
Especially unsatisfied/disappointed Ectaco customers.

[ucfgrad93]

Originally Posted by Elfwreck

There's nothing wrong with workers for a company promoting their products, or even doing it here; we're happy to see employees of ereader companies involved in the conversation. But there's something downright slimy about pretending to be a random person who just "discovered" the awesomeness of [product] and is dying to share it.

Well said, and I agree completely.

[gamba66]

Hey guys,

I am actually the one who found out about these ECTACO profiles, many of you may wonder why I even did that. I actually wanted to buy the JBC2 but I wanted to inform myself about it beforehand and also them because of warranty and so on.. I really had some horrible first-hand experiences with that Company (just asking for info about the JBC2 via email) and in conclusion I would say these people are not only dumb but borderline criminal!

In Germany atleast you can send a product back for 2 Weeks if your unsatisfied and the product is in the same condition and you receive your money back. I have read countless reports of ECTACO not only refusing the return delivery but completely ignoring E-Mails and of coruse not refunding. Also many Customers reported when their Product broke even during Warranty time, instead of repairing the reader, they offer a "discount" for you to buy a new one.

I was very close to buying the JBC2 but besides it being a horrible product in itselve, ECATCO really made a very bad impression on me. I am shocked that anyone buys from them! I just think its fair that people should find out about their dubious way of making business so it saves them alot of money and trouble.

I even found out that the User LuBib (and probably also Kriss777) is in fact the "Product Manager" Greg Stetson of ECTACO. So he is not just some small employee

Spoiler:

I digged a little deeper and found some obvious evidence that LuBiB wasn't only an Employee but actually the Product Manager of Ectaco Greg Stetson.

Please take a look at this. In this Thread LuBiB states that he made a Video Review for the Jetbook.

Originally Posted by LuBiB

soooooo, i manned up and made an English jetBook video review

got a couple of my pro friends with their cameras to shoot the angles and even do the editing for me.

hope this helps to visually see the functions the jetBook has and hope to hear some comments!

disclaimer: (this is the first video review i have ever done in my life lol)

Listen closely to his way of speaking..

Now if you look at that youtube channel there are 8 other videos, 6 of which directly relate to Ectaco.

If you look at CES 2010 Ectaco or Ectaco ER900 Video, LuBiB a.k.a Greg Stetson refers to himself as "Chris/Kris Anderson".

If you look at the ECTACO Youtube channel you will find some Videos where Greg Stetson introduces the Jetbook Color for example: Jetbook Color

Now compare this to the Video that LuBiB has posted! Also one could think that the Kris777 account also belonged to him, since he refers to himself as "Chris/Kris Anderson" (he only says it in the videos)

This video describes Greg Stetson role at Ectaco

I think it is a scandal that Greg Stetson, the product manager of ECTACO, gives himself fake identities to push the products of his company, this clearly just shows what a dubious and borderline criminal company ECTACO is in the End!

Here is also my original post:

Spoiler:

Hello,

I have come to this forum as an Ereader Enthusiast, I have been thrilled to find out about the possibilities E-Ink delivers while also accounting it's limits (flashing, ghosting and static content).

When I heard about Color E-Ink I was excited at first but the only product that came to the market until now is from a Company called Ectaco in the form of the Jetbook Color 1 and 2. Thanks to this forum and many honest User experiences I could draw myself a pretty complete picture of how this product would be and came to the conclusion that the Jetbook Color (1 or 2) is a disaster at any pricepoint, but even more so at 400$ to 500$. Also while reading about customer experiences with Ectaco I noticed many people having even trouble returning their products in the law-regulated time of 2 Weeks usually, Ectaco would just ignore E-mails or even send the products back. Thanks to this forum and also sources of customer reviews (such as amazon) it is obvious for me Ectaco is a very dubious company with very questionable business strategies. And I also know this because I have had some first-hand experience with them asking about their products and special deals!

While reading the Ectaco forums I couldn't stop but notice some certain users, who had a consistency in positive opinions about the products from Ectaco. But not only that, they even had some very obvious advertisements for their products and that not only once but very often, of course only for Ectaco. Obviously, this doesn't only abuse Mobileread as a place for very direct advertising but also distorts public opinions about the Ectaco products, since they at no point ever indicate that they are from ectaco or stand in any relationship to them.

This makes my opinion of the company even worse but also leads me to the question:


Is it allowed to use mobileread forums as a direct advertising platform and even distort opinions from customer reviews?

I thought forums are used from customers for opinions and reviews and if people from companies are here, they state that so and give support and help. But what these Users do is manipulate opinions and try to sell products directly by posting links to "special offers"

So that you can make your own opinions, here is a quote from one of my previous posts, reacting to one of these "employees":

Spoiler:

Originally Posted by gamba66

The users Kris777 and LuBiB seem to be working for Ectaco or atleast in someway related to them. Atleast that would explain the effort from both these users to:

1. Advertise Ectaco Products and "special deals" from them

2. Only give positive feedback about their products

3. Totally ignore all relevant criticism and give very subjective and selective feedback about Ectaco products.

I want everyone to make their own opinion, before someone claims I am just ranting! Thats why just check out their posts:

Kris777's Posts

LuBiBs Posts

Here is an Example of a post from Kris777 in another forum than mobileread:

I just got the XL-1500 as a present from my wife and I have to say that I was very impressed. I already had another model from Ectaco for France but since we were planning to visit several countries she decided we should have this 15 language version. We are going on a grand tour through Europe for our honeymoon and I cannot wait to try it out in real life situations. It's incredible how much information is in this little machine and I can't believe how easy it is to use. It works just as well as the other one I had and we have already learned some phrases that we will need when we arrive in each country. We tried it out at this little Spanish restaurant near our house and it worked so well! The waiter was surprised at first because we pretended not to speak English and we surprised him after! We got everything we wanted plus a big smile!
This model available on sale just for $159.95 now
http://www.ectacodeal.com/ECTACO-XL1500/


This is very cheap and dubious marketing. I suspect LuBiB is from the American Department of Ectaco (which is coincidentally located in New York where he lives) and Kris777 from the Russian Department. This is just another reason why I would never buy from Ectaco. So much effort for advertising but not having any real customer service.

This is one of the worst companies I know! Just search on amazon for ectaco and read some of the customer reviews or any other source of customer experiences, both their products and services get very bad grades:
http://www.trustpilot.com/review/www.ectaco.de

http://www.amazon.de/s/ref=sr_st?__m...rank_authority

Here is the relevant thread: https://www.mobileread.com/forums/sho...=208488&page=3

In conclusion I just want to warn people about this Company because.

1. ECTACO doesn't have any customer service (dont accept returns, don't repair and basically don't reply to any e-mails only if its in their interest)

2. They use fake accounts to promote themselves on forums (not just this one also others such as a large russian community, dunno if I can name it)

3. They fake youtube video reviews of their products and give themselves even fake names.

I hope you are warned.

[booklover6]

I had bought a new open box Jetbook Lite from ebay to keep as a spare, but after all this, as soon as it arrives, I am putting it right back on ebay.