Lending DRM'd books to a friend - Page 3

Piper_ · 10-15-2012, 07:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SeigneurAo

I don't know exactly what a pubic library might be, but I'm pretty sure I'd like to visit one.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jusmee

In my case a public library is a government run facility with a large collection of books, where you can go and read the books for free, and also go and borrow books for set time periods (2 weeks, 4 weeks etc) and take them home and read them for free, returning them within the borrowing period.

More recently, you can go the library's web site and borrow ebooks, again for a limited time period. You don't have to return them, they expire after the time period. By expire, I mean the DRM ceases to allow you to open and read them after they have expired.

*Shamelessly grinning ear-to-ear*

nursedude · 10-15-2012, 07:50 PM

I once borrowed a book from the pubic library but when I lost a book they threatened to rescind my membership unless I paid for it. They had me by the short and curleys so I took another look for the book and found it. It was a really close shave though.

PeterT · 10-15-2012, 08:04 PM

Years ago when we moved from Britain to Canada my sister had put some books in the bathroom that were not to be packed so she could retunr them.

Well... there was an upcoming dock strike, the packing got done very quickly and the books left fot the dock.

A few months later they arrived in Canada and she took them back with her to England.

SeigneurAo · 10-15-2012, 09:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Piper_

*Shamelessly grinning ear-to-ear*

I don't remember any pun having ever gone so unnoticed :-P

HarleyB · 10-15-2012, 11:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SeigneurAo

I don't remember any pun having ever gone so unnoticed :-P

I giggled and then marvelled at how often that particular spelling mistake happens.

I saw it in a travel forum just a few days ago.
Several people there expressed their interest in learning more about what pubic libraries were!!

judyz · 10-16-2012, 01:12 AM

The reality is that DRM is a flawed model. In the end people just remove the DRM to get around such silliness.

In my Family since as long as I can remember one member would purchase a book. Then we would trade them and pass them along. Since reading a book is generally a one time thing and the cost is quite high for a new hard cover this has been a way to enjoy reading for all of us.

If publishers were smart they would allow a form of limited lending with standard drm intact. So that for instance in the case of my family only one member would be able to read a particular purchased book at a time. Allowing us to carry on the tradition electronically. Instead they make DRM restrictions so silly that you end up having to work around them.

I think long term this will become more of an issue. For instance the question can be asked what happens to your electronic purchases when the original license holder passes away? In the case of music files it has already been discovered by some families that extensive electronic collections purchased legally by an individual are not transferable later to family members. Imagine a parent or spouse dying and potentially leaving the family without access to any of the previously enjoyed music, books and movies because they were all under "Dad's account".

If the music and movie industries have any lessons to teach the publishing industry it's that if you charge too much or place too many restrictions on users they will simply find a way around the problem.

DNSB · 10-16-2012, 02:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nogle

With a physical book, if you forget how to read or burn your book, you also lose the book. With an eBook, as long as you maintain software capable of reading the file, you can read it (assuming again that you maintian the ability to read). As far as I am aware, the onus is on the user to maintain the ability (software) to access the file.

There have been cases where companies have dropped their support for their DRM schemes -- check out Microsoft's PlaysForSure for example. Once they turned off the servers, you couldn't add a new computer to play the content nor could you re-authorize an old computer if you rebuilt or upgraded the operating system.

Regards,
David

HarryT · 10-16-2012, 03:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jusmee

If I own something, I should be entitled to let a friend borrow it for a while. I can't believe anyone can reasonably argue against this.

But you're not "letting a friend borrow it"; you're giving your friend a copy of the book. Previously only you had a copy; now, both you AND your friend have a copy. Two books exist where previously there was only one. It's like photocopying a paper book and giving your friend the photocopy. That's why this is not permitted.

jusmee · 10-16-2012, 05:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HarryT

But you're not "letting a friend borrow it"; you're giving your friend a copy of the book. Previously only you had a copy; now, both you AND your friend have a copy. Two books exist where previously there was only one. It's like photocopying a paper book and giving your friend the photocopy. That's why this is not permitted.

No, I'm giving him my licence to read it for the loan period. The actual file of 1's and 0's is immaterial, what matters is the DRM and who can read the book using it.

HarryT · 10-16-2012, 05:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jusmee

No, I'm giving him my licence to read it for the loan period. The actual file of 1's and 0's is immaterial, what matters is the DRM and who can read the book using it.

But you AND your friend have the book - that's the crucial point. It's not like lending someone a physical book where when you lend it to your friend you can no longer read it. You've created an additional copy, which is why copyright law gets involved in the picture.

jusmee · 10-16-2012, 07:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HarryT

But you AND your friend have the book - that's the crucial point. It's not like lending someone a physical book where when you lend it to your friend you can no longer read it. You've created an additional copy, which is why copyright law gets involved in the picture.

Yes it exactly is like that. When I loan it to him, I CANNOT read it.

HarryT · 10-16-2012, 07:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jusmee

Yes it exactly is like that. When I loan it to him, I CANNOT read it.

Sorry, you've slightly lost me. Why can't you?

Nilotikus · 10-16-2012, 01:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HarryT

Sorry, you've slightly lost me. Why can't you?

I guess it's the difference between copying a file to another device and moving a file to that device. If you move it to a friend's reader you won't have a copy to read.

HarryT · 10-16-2012, 01:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nilotikus

I guess it's the difference between copying a file to another device and moving a file to that device. If you move it to a friend's reader you won't have a copy to read.

But you'll still have the book in your Kobo library account, and probably also on your PC's hard disk. As I said before, the reason that so-called "lending" of ebooks is different to lending a paper book is precisely because you're not simply moving a single copy around, but creating duplicates.

Breid · 10-16-2012, 04:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Breid

There is no facility on the Kobo to lend books to a friend. Apprentice Alf has been my friend in allowing me to set my books free, and I have emailed some to my sister and she is happily reading them on her Sony PRS 650

I am mortified....I never thought about the fact that I was creating a second unauthorised copy of the books that I sent to my sister. Because I had paid for the original copies, I thought it was ok. Thankfully I only sent her a few books, which she has read and deleted (at my request!).
I keep a DRM-free copy of all books that I purchase so that I will have access to them in future if the original vendor goes out of business or if I should decide to change to a non-epub ecosystem.

Since I cannot lend my books unless I am prepared to lend my spare ereader, I hope Kobo will implement e-lending soon.

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10-15-2012, 07:50 PM	#32
nursedude Zealot Posts: 131 Karma: 17102 Join Date: May 2010 Location: Ontario, Canada Device: Kobo (Original), KT, iPad 1, iPhone 4S, iPad 3rd gen	I once borrowed a book from the pubic library but when I lost a book they threatened to rescind my membership unless I paid for it. They had me by the short and curleys so I took another look for the book and found it. It was a really close shave though.

10-15-2012, 08:04 PM	#33
PeterT Grand Sorcerer Posts: 13,309 Karma: 78876004 Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Toronto Device: Libra H2O, Libra Colour	Years ago when we moved from Britain to Canada my sister had put some books in the bathroom that were not to be packed so she could retunr them. Well... there was an upcoming dock strike, the packing got done very quickly and the books left fot the dock. A few months later they arrived in Canada and she took them back with her to England.

10-16-2012, 01:12 AM	#36
judyz Enthusiast Posts: 36 Karma: 10638 Join Date: Dec 2010 Device: Kobo Wifi, Kobo Glo, Sony PRS-950	The reality is that DRM is a flawed model. In the end people just remove the DRM to get around such silliness. In my Family since as long as I can remember one member would purchase a book. Then we would trade them and pass them along. Since reading a book is generally a one time thing and the cost is quite high for a new hard cover this has been a way to enjoy reading for all of us. If publishers were smart they would allow a form of limited lending with standard drm intact. So that for instance in the case of my family only one member would be able to read a particular purchased book at a time. Allowing us to carry on the tradition electronically. Instead they make DRM restrictions so silly that you end up having to work around them. I think long term this will become more of an issue. For instance the question can be asked what happens to your electronic purchases when the original license holder passes away? In the case of music files it has already been discovered by some families that extensive electronic collections purchased legally by an individual are not transferable later to family members. Imagine a parent or spouse dying and potentially leaving the family without access to any of the previously enjoyed music, books and movies because they were all under "Dad's account". If the music and movie industries have any lessons to teach the publishing industry it's that if you charge too much or place too many restrictions on users they will simply find a way around the problem.

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