‘There will be no more professional writers in the future’

[spindlegirl]

Originally Posted by HarryT

Which is bad news for the reader, because it means that they get swamped by all the crap rather than it being filtered out by the publishers. Undoubtedly there's the rare self-published gem out there; the problem is finding it in the sea of garbage. That's why I prefer to buy from traditional publishers.

I hear this being repeated quite often, that it is harder to find "good books" from self-published authors than from traditional. But I've been going to the library for 40 years and have filled bags with recommended reads I've had trouble getting into.

The ratio of books I download from Smashwords vs that which I actually consider a keeper is really no different, I am starting to find.

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by spindlegirl

I hear this being repeated quite often, that it is harder to find "good books" from self-published authors than from traditional. But I've been going to the library for 40 years and have filled bags with recommended reads I've had trouble getting into.

The ratio of books I download from Smashwords vs that which I actually consider a keeper is really no different, I am starting to find.

My problem is that I just can't read books that have poor grammar, punctuation and spelling, and sadly in the few independently-published books I've tried reading, those things have been all too common. No matter how good a story-teller the author is, for me, he or she needs to get those things right. Perhaps that's a failing on my part, and I'm being too picky, but I can't help it.

[spindlegirl]

That's the thing though, I've found traditionally published books that are loaded with poor grammar, bad editing, etc, too.

I also am very picky about grammar and sentence structure and how a story is told.
All I am saying is that for me, the ratio of good to bad, seems to be the same, in my experience.

It's easy to assume that a person who reads self-publishing isn't picky, or has relaxed standards for grammar, but trust me, I hate bad grammar too. In fact that is the main reason I have never owned a texting phone.

Five years ago I broke my arm and had to grin and bear it and thank people politely who said, "I'm sry to hear u broke ur arm. When u getting ur cast off?" In an email, where the number of characters didn't matter, and they had access to a keyboard!

[Catlady]

Originally Posted by frahse

We have to be careful about what "average" means.

We also have to be careful about what "writer" means.

[speakingtohe]

I admire the majority of aspiring authors. Writing for your own amusement is oten fun and sometimes easy. Writing something with the intention of selling it takes courage and hard work fofr most IMO.

As spindlegirl said lots of less than scintillating books have been around for a very long time.

I can ignore a fair amount of typos and grammatical errors in fiction if the story is good. Even a certain amount of cut and paste repetitions. Not so in non-fiction. A paper book I read on body language, wriiten by an expert in Neuro-linguistic programming had so many repetitive cut and pastes throughout that it seemed I was reading the same book over and over.

Generally I read older books because I have hundreds of cherished authors and I try to fill in the books written by them that I have not read. I try to read at least one new (to me) author every week or so, but usually pick one with several books in case I want to read more

Price is not usually a factor. I can forgo a night out, make my own coffee or sandwich and even on occasion pass up the latest electronic gizmo or appliance. Of course if it is free to buy or even cheap and I want to read it then that is a bonus.

I think that overall good/excellent authors will rise to the top, and maybe a few bad (IMO) ones as well.

I don't begrudge anyone anyone making money from writing whether they are doing it for fun or profit. Where would we be without them.

Helen

[LuvReadin]

Originally Posted by HarryT

My problem is that I just can't read books that have poor grammar, punctuation and spelling, and sadly in the few independently-published books I've tried reading, those things have been all too common. No matter how good a story-teller the author is, for me, he or she needs to get those things right. Perhaps that's a failing on my part, and I'm being too picky, but I can't help it.

Unfortunately, this is all too true. I can just about cope with the odd few typos, as these are also present in traditionally published books (although I'd venture to say with far less regularity), and usually there is some evidence that the book has a least been put through a spellchecker. OTOH, there is a distressing number of books that have clearly been written by non-native English speakers, or in some cases native English speakers who are just really bad at their own language, without any attempt to have any sort of read-through or correction process before it's shoved up online. I've found this to be more common in non-fiction than in fiction, but both have more than their fair share of truly unreadable books. It doesn't show a great deal of respect for the reader, IMO.

[hidari]

So, Harry T and LuvReadin would you stop watching a movie if there was poor grammar on the part of the screen play, after all it is just a story like most Fiction out there? I really find the anal retentiveness a bit strange....no offence, but if the story is good it should transcend bits and bobs of mistakes...and some "rules" of grammar are a bit arbitrary.

As for the Lit writer that is complaining... pathetic and moron comes to mind. Writing is a privilege. Lots of people make a living doing many types of jobs. He or she who make s living as a writer should enjoy the privilege of having that opportunity. Somehow are readers supposed to have more sympathy for this struggling writer because he is not getting his 20,000 quid cut for his next literature novel that nobody will read? I am not an SK fan but at least he knows how to market and sell novels or he knows how to get people to do it for him.

[BeccaPrice]

It's not being anal-retentive. Bad grammar pulls me out of the story, unless it's deliberate as in someone uneducated talking - even then, it takes me a bit longer to parse what they're supposed to be saying than good English does.

I just finished reading an excellent mystery - self-published, which I rarely read - and every so often there was a sentence fragment that just went *Klong!* and pulled me out. I'd have to go back and re-read a sentence before it and after it, to see whether I was missing something. It happened often enough to downgrade the book, but not (quite) often enough for me to stop reading. A good editor would have smoothed out those passages.

[speakingtohe]

Originally Posted by hidari

So, Harry T and LuvReadin would you stop watching a movie if there was poor grammar on the part of the screen play, after all it is just a story like most Fiction out there? I really find the anal retentiveness a bit strange....no offence, but if the story is good it should transcend bits and bobs of mistakes...and some "rules" of grammar are a bit arbitrary.

As for the Lit writer that is complaining... pathetic and moron comes to mind. Writing is a privilege. Lots of people make a living doing many types of jobs. He or she who make s living as a writer should enjoy the privilege of having that opportunity. Somehow are readers supposed to have more sympathy for this struggling writer because he is not getting his 20,000 quid cut for his next literature novel that nobody will read? I am not an SK fan but at least he knows how to market and sell novels or he knows how to get people to do it for him.

How is writing a privilege any more than selling used cars or flipping burgers?

Maybe you are saying getting paid for writing is a privilege? Is it then a privilege to work at or create anything and get paid for it? Maybe it is. If so most people who work are indeed privileged.

I can write, you can write, maybe one of us could write a book that people would buy, maybe not.

Successful writers may be privileged by posessing talent or a good work ethic or both, but the idea that writing is a privilege in the free world for a moderately educated person with access to a pen and paper or a computer seems a bit farfetched.

Actually living in the free world is a privilege of course which often means one actually has books to read and food to eat etc..

Helen

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by hidari

So, Harry T and LuvReadin would you stop watching a movie if there was poor grammar on the part of the screen play, after all it is just a story like most Fiction out there? I really find the anal retentiveness a bit strange....no offence, but if the story is good it should transcend bits and bobs of mistakes...and some "rules" of grammar are a bit arbitrary.

Totally different scenario. There's a difference between writing dialogue which is an accurate reflection of the way that people speak, and not knowing how to write using accurate and correct punctuation, spelling and grammar. If the author can't be bothered to get those simple things right, I can't be bothered to read the book. To me it's symptomatic of a lack of care on the part of the author.

[speakingtohe]

Originally Posted by HarryT

Totally different scenario. There's a difference between writing dialogue which is an accurate reflection of the way that people speak, and not knowing how to write using accurate and correct punctuation, spelling and grammar. If the author can't be bothered to get those simple things right, I can't be bothered to read the book. To me it's symptomatic of a lack of care on the part of the author.

Correct to a point. Some people cannot spell or punctuate and are totally oblivious to this fact.

Not that you should torture yourself by reading their books, but lots are not being careless, or too thrifty to hire an editor, they just do not know any better and are truly puzzled as to what the fuss is about.

Helen

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by speakingtohe

lots are not being careless, or too thrifty to hire an editor, they just do not know any better and are truly puzzled as to what the fuss is about.

Helen

The way I look at it, language is an author's toolbox, and he or she needs to know how to use those tools correctly, just as much as a carpenter needs to know how to use his tools. Without a knowledge of how to use the tools, in both cases the result is going to be a botched job.

[Catlady]

Originally Posted by hidari

So, Harry T and LuvReadin would you stop watching a movie if there was poor grammar on the part of the screen play, after all it is just a story like most Fiction out there? I really find the anal retentiveness a bit strange....no offence, but if the story is good it should transcend bits and bobs of mistakes...and some "rules" of grammar are a bit arbitrary.

A writer who can't get the little things right isn't likely to get the big things right either.

[ApK]

Originally Posted by Canuck_in_Japan

I feel bad for journalists

Seems like much o' them what passes themselves off as journalists these days are tremendously overpaid at any price.
Fantasy writers with press passes.
No sympathy from me.

[Fbone]

Originally Posted by MikeOxlittle

Is there really an 'average' when it comes to writers though?

Your book either sells or it doesn't.

If the average income for a British self published author is $500, then they sold their work. Whether that met their expectations or not is up to them.


As I said, it's a difficult profession to support oneself if that is your goal.