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Old 07-13-2012, 09:58 AM   #31
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Originally Posted by teh603 View Post
So if the US is a Berne signatory, why do we still have to register to get full copyright protection?
You have to register as part of the court proceedings. You can get actual damages for any infringement that occurred before the registration. That is sufficient to meet the Berne requirements. If you register before the infringement occurs, you don't have to prove actual damages and can get the statutory damages awarded.

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Old 07-13-2012, 10:15 AM   #32
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Got enough money for a court case on it?

Although I doubt the current supreme court would be likely to agree; this is the court that ruled you can't restrict a corporation's ability to buy politicians.
The last extension of the copyright law was challenged in court, there is every reason to believe that this one will be as well. The Supreme Court ruled that the extension was not so great as to violate "limited times". They did not rule that it could be extended forever, only that this extension wasn't great enough to violate limited times. There are, or course, people who argue for eternal copyrights, and openly advocate for copyright to be extended over and over again to bypass the Constitution. Infinity-1 isn't a reasonable definition of limited times, but it remains to be seen if the court will be reasonable.

Or maybe we should just give special exemptions to Disney so they don't drag every other work into eternal limbo with them. As it is, nothing will enter the public domain until 2019.
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Old 07-13-2012, 10:39 AM   #33
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The problem with the US and Berne is the US doesn't follow Berne anyways. Look at all the items that would be P.D. under Berne that is still under copyright in the US (and they want more!).

The 1923 cutoff in the US is strictly artificial, and has nothing to do with Berne. It's the extensions that are so disgusting, and they're nowhere in Berne.

(And life + 70 was strictly due to US lobbying, not a native grown request from the EU itself. And besides there is no reason the Eu couldn't change the term back to Life + 50, it wouldn't void the Berne treaty...)
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Old 07-13-2012, 10:54 AM   #34
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I have found this petition at petitions.whitehouse.gov to reduce the term of copyright in the US to 28 years.

https://petitions.whitehouse.gov//pe...years/Z7skGfKk
This energy needs to be pointed elsewhere. The people who want to sign the petition would be better off contacting the Pirate Party members in the EU parliment and suggest that this is the time to try to get Life + 70 rolled back to Life + 50. Now that they have a victory with voting down ACTA, they should try to build on the victory....

Last edited by Greg Anos; 07-14-2012 at 07:40 AM.
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Old 07-13-2012, 11:06 AM   #35
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Films are (almost always) made by corporations. If those corporations are not permitted to own the intellectual property that they create, what would be the incentive in making it?
They would simply change to a model of having the copyright be in the name of the director, or producer or someone like that.

But I think the better answer is to have DIFFERENT terms for copyrights held by an individual and those held by another legal entity.

Something like, the individual gets life+28 or something, and the corporate entity gets 28 years renewable once.

The actual numbers are arguable, but the idea is, we do need incentive for the creation of good IP but we also need to bring us back to the idea that the reason for doing so is to benefit society by actually making it part of the public domain sometime.

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Old 07-13-2012, 11:08 AM   #36
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Waste of time. This would be a violation of the Berne Convention, to which the US is a signatory.
I don't think it's a waste of time to provide your opinion into the political process. Then again I don't think it's a waste of time to vote even if you know that the party you're voting for will not get elected.
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Old 07-13-2012, 11:16 AM   #37
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I don't think it's a waste of time to provide your opinion into the political process. Then again I don't think it's a waste of time to vote even if you know that the party you're voting for will not get elected.
This is very important to realize. Major parties/candidates do analyze the data from 3rd party voting to find out what trends are popular. Even if you think your party doesn't have a prayer of winning the election, by voting for your ideals you can influence those that do win the election.
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Old 07-13-2012, 11:18 AM   #38
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I don't think it's a waste of time to provide your opinion into the political process. Then again I don't think it's a waste of time to vote even if you know that the party you're voting for will not get elected.
Quite. Every material change contravenes some current law, treaty, agreement or tradition. How could progress ever happen if advocating change was always seen as a waste of time?
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Old 07-13-2012, 11:19 AM   #39
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I'm with them.
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Old 07-13-2012, 11:20 AM   #40
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If you're not good enough to make money in 28 years, why should you be granted by law to try longer?
I don't think it's about how good you are. The majority of the money is made in the first few years after release. The works that are still making money after 28 years have already earned enough money to compensate the creators. The law shouldn't be written to handle the most exceptional circumstance. It should be written to handle the majority of creative works and balanced against the common good.
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Old 07-13-2012, 11:22 AM   #41
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I don't think it's about how good you are. The majority of the money is made in the first few years after release. The works that are still making money after 28 years have already earned enough money to compensate the creators. The law shouldn't be written to handle the most exceptional circumstance. It should be written to handle the majority of creative works and balanced against the common good.
What about all those ahead-of-their-time geniuses who's classic works were not appreciated until after their death....
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Old 07-13-2012, 11:36 AM   #42
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I don't think it's about how good you are. The majority of the money is made in the first few years after release. The works that are still making money after 28 years have already earned enough money to compensate the creators. The law shouldn't be written to handle the most exceptional circumstance. It should be written to handle the majority of creative works and balanced against the common good.
That may be true for novels and thrillers etc., but it isn't necessarily true for non-fiction and text books. Some of those works need decades to gain a return of what it cost to produce them, for specialized encyclopedias or dictionaries it may take more than 30 years before they recoup their investment. Imagine something like an English - Burmese - English dictionary. It wouldn't be produced unless the publisher knew it was protected for a long time.

That is the problem with the present copyright law, it puts everything in the same boat, when a flottila would have made more sense.
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Old 07-13-2012, 11:37 AM   #43
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What about all those ahead-of-their-time geniuses who's classic works were not appreciated until after their death....
If they are dead, what do they need money for?
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Old 07-13-2012, 11:42 AM   #44
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The problem with the US and Berne is the US doesn't follow Berne anyways. Look at all the items that would be P.D. under Berne that is still under copyright in the US (and they want more!).
Actually, the US has increasingly come into compliance with Berne, most notably with the Uruguay Round Agreements in 1994 and some updates in '97.

For example, the US government actually refused to abide by one aspect of Berne: Certain works should have been offered public domain, but because the US did not properly adhere to Berne, some works were protected in the nation of origin, but were in the public domain in the US. In 2011, the SCOTUS ruled that the US had an obligation to abide by the treaty, and those works would be removed from the public domain and protected again by copyright, until such protections expire in the nation of origin.


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The 1923 cutoff in the US is strictly artificial, and has nothing to do with Berne. It's the extensions that are so disgusting, and they're nowhere in Berne.
Berne only specifies a minimum period; as far as I know, it does not require a maximum as well.

Each nation is allowed to implement copyright in its own way, as long as a) it honors the protections and durations of the other signatory nations, and b) it adheres to the minimum of life + 50.

Extensions are routine, and have been added many times over the course of history. The constitutionality of the extensions was thoroughly reviewed in Eldred v Ashcroft.
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Old 07-13-2012, 11:47 AM   #45
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If they are dead, what do they need money for?
David Foster Wallace published Infinite Jest in 1996, and committed suicide in 2008.

I'm pretty sure his family appreciates both the income, as well as control of what he wrote -- including the right to publish or not publish any notes, diaries and unfinished work -- after his death.
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