Self-Pub author signs seven figure deal with Penguin...

[FizzyWater]

Yeesh. Is *any* book really worth seven figures?! No wonder mid-listers aren't given enough time to build up a reputation. They're paying way too much for junk!

[Phogg]

Originally Posted by Valkrider

At 16 the boy is an adult in most of Europe as far as s.x is concerned so not an issue this side of the pond.

On this side of the pond, 16 is legal in most states, but only so long as the other party is no more than three years older. After 18 anything goes.

If a judge and the minor's guardians both agree, people younger than this to a point can marry, and have marital sexual relations.

[DrNefario]

No one ever liked that terrible book Lolita.

Oh, wait.

[Phogg]

Originally Posted by DrNefario

No one ever liked that terrible book Lolita.

Oh, wait.

I have always considered it to be porn, and its popularity arises strictly from people being able to claim their bit of prurience was not erotic titilation but high art.

I view it as being different from a cheap penthouse press novel in the exact same way a nice decanter of Glen Livet is different from a bottle of everclear in a paper bag. The people who read it are as different from people reading other porn as Glen livet drinkers are different from everclear drinkers. The level of pretentiousness.

The same goes for Eve Ensler's "Vagina Monologues."

[kennyc]

Originally Posted by FizzyWater

Yeesh. Is *any* book really worth seven figures?! No wonder mid-listers aren't given enough time to build up a reputation. They're paying way too much for junk!

This is definitely one of the issues with the traditional publishing system and why the revolution is good.

[kennyc]

Originally Posted by Phogg

I have always considered it to be porn, and its popularity arises strictly from people being able to claim their bit of prurience was not erotic titilation but high art.

I view it as being different from a cheap penthouse press novel in the exact same way a nice decanter of Glen Livet is different from a bottle of everclear in a paper bag. The people who read it are as different from people reading other porn as Glen livet drinkers are different from everclear drinkers. The level of pretentiousness.

The same goes for Eve Ensler's "Vagina Monologues."

and "Fifty Shades" I would dare say.

[rhadin]

Originally Posted by Valkrider

At 16 the boy is an adult in most of Europe as far as s.x is concerned so not an issue this side of the pond.

In America, it isn't the age that's the problem, it's the s.x. The religious right tells you to procreate but then wants to hide from you the very means to do so

[rhadin]

Originally Posted by MaggieScratch

When publishers acquire these virally popular self-pubbed titles, I wonder who they think the audience will be? Haven't a lot of people already bought the book? I, for one, don't plan to rebuy, though I found the book quite cracktastic and enjoyed my read. I can see acquiring her future books. But I suppose it worked for the 50 Shades books.

You bought the book as a self-pubbed ebook. eBooks constitute 20% of the book market. There is still 80% of the book market that is untapped and can't be tapped until the book is available as a pbook.

These ebook wonders that get signed to traditional contracts are being signed because the ebook has demonstrated that there is a market for the story and the vast majority of the reading public has not yet been exposed to it. eBooks create the chatter and pbooks create the sales/money.

[rhadin]

Originally Posted by Phogg

I have always considered it to be porn, and its popularity arises strictly from people being able to claim their bit of prurience was not erotic titilation but high art.

I view it as being different from a cheap penthouse press novel in the exact same way a nice decanter of Glen Livet is different from a bottle of everclear in a paper bag. The people who read it are as different from people reading other porn as Glen livet drinkers are different from everclear drinkers. The level of pretentiousness.

The same goes for Eve Ensler's "Vagina Monologues."

Hmm, reminds me of James Joyce's Ulysses and D.H. Lawrence's Lady Chatterley among other literary "classics".

[plib]

Originally Posted by Phogg

I have always considered it to be porn, and its popularity arises strictly from people being able to claim their bit of prurience was not erotic titilation but high art.

I view it as being different from a cheap penthouse press novel in the exact same way a nice decanter of Glen Livet is different from a bottle of everclear in a paper bag. The people who read it are as different from people reading other porn as Glen livet drinkers are different from everclear drinkers. The level of pretentiousness.

The same goes for Eve Ensler's "Vagina Monologues."

I've always found my appreciation of a single malt, and peeled grapes, is greatly improved when it's served by nubile maidens dressed in wisps of gauze and silk reciting passages from Ars Amatoria.

Though personally I prefer Laphroaig to Glenlivet.

[fjtorres]

Originally Posted by rhadin

eBooks create the chatter and pbooks create the sales/money.

For now.
It does argue strongly for an ebook-first strategy, no?
If the traditional publisher had picked the title *before* it got self-pubbed and released it as an ebook to test the waters, they might have gotten it for less than a 7-figure advance. That is an *expensive* way to find a "bestseller".

The whole emerging strategy that some BPHs seem to be pursuing--mining self-pub for "sure-fire" bestsellers--strikes me as time-limited. The support structures for self-pub are growing apace in both the ebook *and* pbook arenas. A lot of the small independent publishers are moving into print and I hear that even bookstore distribution channels are popping up as "freelance" services. The whole supply chain is under deconstruction and I don't think Traditional publishers will be able to bill themselves as "print book specialists" or even "high volume specialists" for much longer. Not if ebooks are really going to hit 50% by 2016. (That being for the whole industry--which suggests some genres are headed for an 80-20 split in ebooks' favor.)

The BPHs do seem to be scrambling for high-visibility projects with a bit more agility than in recent years--which is good for everybody--but at some point they're going to have to get seriously pro-active and go after content before it gets "market-tested" instead of sitting around, waiting for the content to start selling on its own before swooping in, big advance in hand.

[stonetools]

Originally Posted by fjtorres

For now.
It does argue strongly for an ebook-first strategy, no?
If the traditional publisher had picked the title *before* it got self-pubbed and released it as an ebook to test the waters, they might have gotten it for less than a 7-figure advance. That is an *expensive* way to find a "bestseller".

The whole emerging strategy that some BPHs seem to be pursuing--mining self-pub for "sure-fire" bestsellers--strikes me as time-limited. The support structures for self-pub are growing apace in both the ebook *and* pbook arenas. A lot of the small independent publishers are moving into print and I hear that even bookstore distribution channels are popping up as "freelance" services. The whole supply chain is under deconstruction and I don't think Traditional publishers will be able to bill themselves as "print book specialists" or even "high volume specialists" for much longer. Not if ebooks are really going to hit 50% by 2016. (That being for the whole industry--which suggests some genres are headed for an 80-20 split in ebooks' favor.)

The BPHs do seem to be scrambling for high-visibility projects with a bit more agility than in recent years--which is good for everybody--but at some point they're going to have to get seriously pro-active and go after content before it gets "market-tested" instead of sitting around, waiting for the content to start selling on its own before swooping in, big advance in hand.

For the next few years and maybe longer though, the BPHs can do quite well by using the self-pubbers as a farm system for the "big leagues". In the end, BPHs can always be able justify themselves by :

1. Offering a vertical, one stop solution converting an author's unedited manuscript into an an actual book at a store

2. Sharing the financial risk at developing books that require extensive research and expense to write.

There's a kind of exaltation of self pubbers here that misses the fact that most self pubbers:

1. Write popular genre fiction and nothing else.
2. Actually aspire to work with trad publishers if they had a choice.

[Edward M. Grant]

Originally Posted by stonetools

1. Offering a vertical, one stop solution converting an author's unedited manuscript into an an actual book at a store

For a start, that assumes that the big chain stores (B&N, Walmart, etc) continue to be a major market. Indie book stores are growing while chains are shrinking, and indie stores are more open to selling indie books. Big chains are the only market that trade publishers have a near-monopoly over.

You also assume that a publisher would tarnish whatever reputation it has with readers by publishing any old crap for cash. Since most of those books wouldn't sell, they wouldn't be able to benefit from economies of scale with large print runs, so they'd need a whole PoD infrastructure and would basically just be another Createspace.

Or by 'unedited' did you mean they'd still do editing before printing it?

2. Sharing the financial risk at developing books that require extensive research and expense to write.

True, though that mostly applies to non-fiction.

There's a kind of exaltation of self pubbers here that misses the fact that most self pubbers:

1. Write popular genre fiction and nothing else.
2. Actually aspire to work with trad publishers if they had a choice.

Most trade-published writers write popular genre fiction and nothing else. Most of them don't even have the option of writing anything else because their publisher won't buy anything but 'the same book as last time only different'. If Stephen King decides to write a literary novel about gay elephants they'll buy it without a second thought, but if Joe Midlist does the same instead of writing the sci-fi novels he's been writing before, the publisher will laugh.

Also, I don't know many self-publishers who want to become mid-list trade published writers making $10,000 a book. Offer them $1,000,000 and most would jump at the deal, but just about anyone would in that situation.

[Scott Nicholson]

Jane Dystel has been one of the savviest agents at picking up indies and running them through the NY dog and pony show, where editors salivate and make foolish decisions. Congrats to Ms. Graves but there are a million other writers out there just as likely to be the next.

These indie-to-trad stories are a mixed bag. Boyd Morrison, one of the first, has already been dropped by his publisher. And when the price doubles or triples, and the extra cost is so obviously the corporate overhead and not any real improvement to the story, then it is hard to see many of these turning out as ultimately happy endings for either side (except, of course, the agent, who gets a mad stack either way...)