What’s the greater fear for publishers? Amazon or piracy?

[MovieBird]

Originally Posted by mr ploppy

I think the real fear is that they will squeeze suppliers (writers), not customers (readers). At the moment they pay near enough 70%, if they were the only venue left I doubt it would stay at that level for long.

Then the writers can go elsewhere. I think I'm worth $500,000 a year, but my boss doesn't agree. I can either suck it up and work for what I was able to negotiate, or I can look for another job.

But my skill sets sure don't bring $500,000 in the current market, no matter how much I wish it.

Nobody is forcing anybody to write/perform a specific labor... It's a choice.

[mr ploppy]

Originally Posted by MovieBird

Then the writers can go elsewhere.

Not really, they will need to go where the readers are.

[HansTWN]

Originally Posted by mr ploppy

I think the real fear is that they will squeeze suppliers (writers), not customers (readers). At the moment they pay near enough 70%, if they were the only venue left I doubt it would stay at that level for long.

They undoubtedly would. But I think that fear mongering by the publishers regarding Amazon is largely overblown and mostly meant to drum up public support before the big decisions on the agency price cartel. (Amazon are nowhere near getting a monopoly). Actually publishers are helping Amazon by keeping the dead horse DRM alive. Which means books are not interchangeable between devices and this forces people to choose between "ecosystems" --- and the best IMHO is definitely Amazon.

[sabredog]

Amazon is being painted the big monster by the big 6 simply because they were left way behind, once Amazon sensed the wind change and began to innovate with ebooks and prices geared to entice readers. They keep DRM on their product as a security blanket, trying to hold on to narrowed market share while not moving forward with better modern business and distribution models.

Amazon have DRM and closed ecosystem, yes. But they do a hell of a lot of things far better than the Agency 6 ever had and probably ever will.

I liken the agency 6 stance to be sitting around the comforting DRM fire at the back of their cave, terrified of the dark because the imagined monsters of Amazon (Bezosaurus Rex) and piracy (Say Arrr-o-saur) roar and snuffle outside waiting to gobble them all up.

[SteveEisenberg]

Originally Posted by MovieBird

Once DRM no longer locks people into a specific platform, then competing stores will participate in a battle to the death with prices.

You could be right. But Mike Shatzkin (read all his recent blog entries) seems to want a world with higher-priced non-DRM (or watermark-only DRM) eBooks and lower priced brick-storefront-sold paper books.

I see no moral reason why one product should or should not be more expensive than another. It's obvious from reading this site that a lot of people prefer eBook over print, and that's reason enough for a price differential. But if anyone wants another: Without DRM, you can share your book with a friend at the same time you yourself are doing it. Can't do that with print. Also, a print book lying around our house, or even in my hands on the subway, is an advertisement for the title.

[spindlegirl]

Originally Posted by whitearrow

The real fear for publishers (and authors) should be total obscurity -- nobody paying any attention at all to their book -- neither Amazon nor piracy.

What their real fears are, I couldn't hazard a guess.

One person can't buy everything. I borrow a huge selection of books every year, and then with a Christmas budget select a few from my favorites and my children's and buy the physical book. I respect the quality and workmanship of a physical book more than an e-book. I also respect the fewer restrictions just based on the nature of it. I would happily pay a HIGHER price for "Big name" authored e-books that had NO DRM, so I could make it really my own. But right now, I refuse to pay $15+ for pretending to "own" a book.

I don't buy very many e-books, and especially not ones with DRM. I've been burned paying full price for a DRM'ed book only to have it arrive without a cover. My jaw figuratively hit the proverbial floor, when after selecting the book and thinking "cool cover", only to have my copy that I paid full price have no cover. There was NOTHING that could be done. just too bad so sad.

If it had no DRM I would have been able to edit everything to my satisfaction. I've bought very cheap books drm free with ugly covers, and the fact that I could make it mine, with my cover and some of them scribble my own name on it. Well, I enjoy those kind better. I hate the locked on kind, and always will.

[Ninjalawyer]

The great part of the OP's question is that the the big publishers created the giant they fear; Their mad insistence on DRM even now makes sure buyers stay locked into the Amazon ecosystem. It's even more funny (tragic if you're a publisher) that this is a repeat of the music industry and iTunes. The publishers could have created a competitor to Amazon, but they didn't -

Stonetools is a perfect example of not being able to see the forest through the trees; all the data in the world won't convince them that DRM has failed and been harmful to the industry.

[Andrew H.]

Originally Posted by MovieBird

No, it would level the playing field. Once DRM no longer locks people into a specific platform, then competing stores will participate in a battle to the death with prices. If Amazon gets too greedy, a young upstart company will eat their lunch.

Assuming the customers can freely move back and forth between storefronts.

On a level playing field, the strongest player wins. Amazon would crush the competition, since customers would have no reason to go elsewhere.

Originally Posted by MovieBird

You're ignoring that Amazon

1) Uses DRM to lock people into their ecosystem

No. You can buy non-DRM'd books on Amazon. I don't think that Amazon really cares about DRM, since the net result of it being removed would be more customers buying books. Probably from Amazon.

Removing DRM did not undercut iTunes share of the music market at all.

2) Is cut-throat about keeping prices to the consumer low

OF COURSE they're going to win big with those two caveats. I don't purchase ebooks from Amazon, but I admire the way they have created an outstanding experience, and coupled it with (relatively) reasonable prices.

But the day they get too greedy and raise prices too far, a whippersnapper company will demolish them. The barriers to entry are lower than they've ever been for service companies. It takes less time, and capital, to create a storefront on the internet than at any time in the past.

This may be true, but I see no reason to believe that Amazon will jack its prices up. Itunes hasn't. Walmart hasn't. Low-price companies are well aware of how easy (or not) it is to enter the market (and also that books face competition from all sources of entertainment, not just books).

To beat Amazon, a company is going to have to do something that Amazon isn't doing (that people want, of course). No one will beat Amazon by trying to be exactly like Amazon, but cheaper.

B&N has done a decent job differentiating themselves from Amazon by leveraging their storefronts. And some small specialty retailers have done okay by focusing on particular niches.

Apple, on the other hand, has had very little success with their e-bookstore because they don't really offer anything any different than Amazon or B&N...in fact, they offer less because you can't read iBooks on anything but an iOS device. And their lack of traction in the book market comes despite the fact that there are something like 300 million iOS devices on the market.

[Phogg]

Originally Posted by DiapDealer

Do you walk to school or pack your lunch?

Well put.

[BillSmithBooks]

Originally Posted by Andrew H.

No. You can buy non-DRM'd books on Amazon.

The issue is that they don't TELL us which books have DRM and which do not...probably due to pressure from publishers.

[BillSmithBooks]

Amazon's advantage comes from the relatively seamless ecosystem and the fact that their store is the best online experience available.

The other online stores just don't offer that great an experience...the stores are fine if you know exactly what you are looking for, but they really lack in discoverability.

I think the retailers would hugely benefit from going DRM-free and therefore being able to sell to anyone and everyone, at any store, but for anyone to seriously challenge Amazon, they need to develop a superior shopping experience, which is a tall order.

[Synamon]

Originally Posted by BillSmithBooks

The issue is that they don't TELL us which books have DRM and which do not...probably due to pressure from publishers.

Look for "Simultaneous Device Usage: Unlimited" in the details, Amazon has put this information back after disappearing it for a few months.

[BillSmithBooks]

Originally Posted by Synamon

Look for "Simultaneous Device Usage: Unlimited" in the details, Amazon has put this information back after disappearing it for a few months.

Cool, didn't know they put it back. I was...really annoyed ...when it disappeared before.

[Tattncat]

Originally Posted by euterpe

Well, didn't mean to come across as rude but I guess I did. Also, judging by the the theme of many of these discussions (i.e. why do books cost money, we're oppressed by amazon etc) I'm really not going to win any friends.

Before I discovered these threads I was lurking on Amazon where I noticed the same complaint -- the idea that because ebooks aren't tangible they can't possibly be worth the same as if they were bought in the store. Or, the other half of people who think they have been robbed of some inalienable right to use their ebook on more than 5 devices.

Both are pretty hypocritical in this weird twisted bout of logic -- everyone complaining bought the ereader, or the bookshelf so-to-speak and seems to prefer the ebook product over an ole gutenberg-style any day of the week.

If an ebook then is clearly the superior good, why then is a higher/closer to MSRP price not justified, and furthermore, the publishers concern of its easily mass distributable properties?

Thanks I welcome me to these forums too

-- Euterpe

It's not the five devices that are the issue, it is that the five devices have to be the same; either five Kindles (Amazon), five Nooks (Barnes and Noble), etc. Plus the fact that if Amazon or whoever takes the eBook off their site, you have technically lost your eBook (unless you do frequent back-ups)

In my opinion, thatis the issue.

[whitearrow]

Originally Posted by Andrew H.

No. You can buy non-DRM'd books on Amazon. I don't think that Amazon really cares about DRM, since the net result of it being removed would be more customers buying books. Probably from Amazon.

ITA. I think Amazon would do away with DRM tomorrow if the publishers allowed it, just as they have done away with it for music.