Call yourself an Indie Author?

[HarryT]

If that's all that someone does, they can certainly call themselves an author, but they probably won't be a terribly successful one.

[gmw]

Originally Posted by Justin Nemo

So are you saying that just putting your book, sorry widget, on Amazon and Smashwords and maybe having a website, does not in your eyes constitute enough work to make someone an indie author? What else would they have to do to qualify?

If you simply write some text and upload somewhere on the Internet, without further attention to the detail of trying to actually get someone to read it, then I would say you are an author (just as I am the author of this text), but I don't think you really qualify as an "indie author".

The "indie" part of "indie author" I read as meaning "Independently published author", or perhaps more succinctly a "self-published author", either of which implies that you are attempting to do for your book what a publisher would normally do (even if they outsource some of it). Just uploading it doesn't qualify. (All in my most humble of opinions, of course. )

[speakingtohe]

I think an independent author is one who retains rights to all or some of their works. And a non-independant one is one who is contracte to sell their next x books to someone else whether they want to or not.

The term Indie, in my mind and maybe mine alone, seems to refer to authors who have never accepted an advance or contract from a publisher. Selling from a website or storefront and paying a commission should not make one less 'Indie' again IMO.

Selling the rights in whole or in part for one or more works should not make one less independant or IMO revoke 'Indie status' but I am probably wrong on the second.

Speaking strictly for myself, if I was an author and someone offered me a big chunk of cash and reasonable royalties to publish my book, it would be a business decision based on the terms, benefits and possible losses. Maybe yes, maybe no.

Helen

[Harper Kingsley]

@rhadin: I can just see getting a medical book from those guys at $70-150 a pop and finding tons of mistakes. Their budget may have been tight, but why did they need their project done so fast? For a medical text, I would think you would want quality work.

@Justin Nemo: If you're the one taking full responsibility for your writing project and you're the one responsible for all the costs (monetary and moral)... you're an Indie. Smashwords and Amazon are your distributor, but you're the one coming up with the words, the images, and the marketing. You're your own publisher - it's not like the big publishing houses go out and open their own stores all over the place to sell their stuff. No, they distribute through various companies, including Amazon.

@speakingtohe: Just because I got approached to write for a press, doesn't mean I lose my Indie status if I take them up on the opportunity. I see being Indie as me taking control of my writing - whether it makes it or fails dismally. I just think that people get so bogged down by labeling things. So if someone offered you a ton of money to contract out your current or next works, when you control what ends up in your contract and what rights are going to be shared, you're still independent because you're controlling what you agree to.

[Steven Lyle Jordan]

Originally Posted by Harper Kingsley

I just think that people get so bogged down by labeling things.

So true. You're an author. End of description, really... the rest is just detail.

[speakingtohe]

Originally Posted by Harper Kingsley

@rhadin: I can just see getting a medical book from those guys at $70-150 a pop and finding tons of mistakes. Their budget may have been tight, but why did they need their project done so fast? For a medical text, I would think you would want quality work.

@Justin Nemo: If you're the one taking full responsibility for your writing project and you're the one responsible for all the costs (monetary and moral)... you're an Indie. Smashwords and Amazon are your distributor, but you're the one coming up with the words, the images, and the marketing. You're your own publisher - it's not like the big publishing houses go out and open their own stores all over the place to sell their stuff. No, they distribute through various companies, including Amazon.

@speakingtohe: Just because I got approached to write for a press, doesn't mean I lose my Indie status if I take them up on the opportunity. I see being Indie as me taking control of my writing - whether it makes it or fails dismally. I just think that people get so bogged down by labeling things. So if someone offered you a ton of money to contract out your current or next works, when you control what ends up in your contract and what rights are going to be shared, you're still independent because you're controlling what you agree to.

Er... I thought that was I said. Oh well.

Helen

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by Harper Kingsley

@speakingtohe: Just because I got approached to write for a press, doesn't mean I lose my Indie status if I take them up on the opportunity. I see being Indie as me taking control of my writing - whether it makes it or fails dismally. I just think that people get so bogged down by labeling things. So if someone offered you a ton of money to contract out your current or next works, when you control what ends up in your contract and what rights are going to be shared, you're still independent because you're controlling what you agree to.

It's rather stretching the definition to call yourself an independent author if you've signed a contract with a publisher, don't you think? The very definition of an independent author is someone who DOESN'T publish via a publisher, surely?

All authors "control what they agree to" in a publishing contract.

[Justin Nemo]

Originally Posted by Harper Kingsley

@Justin Nemo: If you're the one taking full responsibility for your writing project and you're the one responsible for all the costs (monetary and moral)... you're an Indie. Smashwords and Amazon are your distributor, but you're the one coming up with the words, the images, and the marketing. You're your own publisher - it's not like the big publishing houses go out and open their own stores all over the place to sell their stuff. No, they distribute through various companies, including Amazon.

As I said way back in the deep dark depths of this thread, Amazon and Smashwords deem themselves as Epublishers now. You may think of them as only distributors, but do distributors put the kind of controls on a persons work as we've seen on other threads here?

So if these companies are publishers or epublishers and you use them, are you truly an indie author?

[VydorScope]

Originally Posted by Justin Nemo

As I said way back in the deep dark depths of this thread, Amazon and Smashwords deem themselves as Epublishers now. You may think of them as only distributors, but do distributors put the kind of controls on a persons work as we've seen on other threads here?

So if these companies are publishers or epublishers and you use them, are you truly an indie author?

Yes.

The difference is I still control the content of my book. Amazon can only choose "list or not list." Amazon can not order me to "change the title" or other such changes. They can call themselves what they want, but they are filling the roll of a distributor. They can say "if you do not don this, we will not carry your book in our store" but that does not prevent me from putting it on Smash, Bookie Jar, and anywhere I want.

IMO I am "independent author" who is "self-published."

But... its all subjective opinion so there really is not a wrong answer.

[Justin Nemo]

Originally Posted by VydorScope

But... its all subjective opinion so there really is not a wrong answer.

Vincent I love that.

[Suzanna]

Originally Posted by Justin Nemo

As I said way back in the deep dark depths of this thread, Amazon and Smashwords deem themselves as Epublishers now. You may think of them as only distributors, but do distributors put the kind of controls on a persons work as we've seen on other threads here?

So if these companies are publishers or epublishers and you use them, are you truly an indie author?

Actually, Amazon is both a publisher and a distributor. If you upload your novel directly to Amazon through their KDP or KDP select program, they're a distributor.

Amazon Publishing is restricted to these lines and works in the same way as traditional publishers. Amazon acquires the rights to publish your manuscript and takes on all the roles of a traditional publisher - editing, cover design, etc.

So unless your book is being released on Amazon through one of the publishing imprints on their Amazon Publishing page, you're an indie author making use of their bookstore as a distributor.

Smashwords ... they're distributors. They don't undertake any of the traditional roles of a publisher, so it would be a bit of a stretch to call them that - whether or not they self-identify that way.

[Justin Nemo]

Originally Posted by Suzanna

Actually, Amazon is both a publisher and a distributor. If you upload your novel directly to Amazon through their KDP or KDP select program, they're a distributor.

Amazon Publishing is restricted to these lines and works in the same way as traditional publishers. Amazon acquires the rights to publish your manuscript and takes on all the roles of a traditional publisher - editing, cover design, etc.

So unless your book is being released on Amazon through one of the publishing imprints on their Amazon Publishing page, you're an indie author making use of their bookstore as a distributor.

Smashwords ... they're distributors. They don't undertake any of the traditional roles of a publisher, so it would be a bit of a stretch to call them that - whether or not they self-identify that way.

You say that, but Smashwords seem to have more controls than Amazon, if you read most of the posts on MR.

[VydorScope]

Originally Posted by Justin Nemo

You say that, but Smashwords seem to have more controls than Amazon, if you read most of the posts on MR.

Smashwords has never said anything about content for books just listed in their site (excluding the recent issue with paypal). They have some limitations on their premium catalog but those are put in place by the retailers they distribute to.

But all these decisions/limitations are "should we sell this product or not" they are not "you will change your book because you are under contract with me." To me that is the difference.

[Suzanna]

Originally Posted by Justin Nemo

You say that, but Smashwords seem to have more controls than Amazon, if you read most of the posts on MR.

"Control" of what they'll allow on their website does not mean they're a publisher. Bookstores also set terms by which they'll allow a book to be distributed through them. Witness Barnes & Nobles saying that Amazon-published books wouldn't be sold through their bricks and mortar stores. Does that make B&N a publisher? No. And I know that here in Canada our largest bookstore chain, Indigo/Chapters, recently revamped their terms for selling books through their stores - they cut in half the amount of time a book would remain on the shelves before it's returned to the publisher as unsold.

Distributors can set terms. It's up to the author to decide whether those terms are beneficial and they want to continue to sell through them. Though admittedly, authors often don't really have a choice if there's no other way to get their work out before the public. It doesn't make the distributor a publisher, though.

Publishers (both epublishers and print publishers) acquire the rights to a book (and not all books - you have to submit your manuscript and they decide whether they want to make an offer for it, like Amazon does with its publishing imprints), help you edit the book, arrange cover art, and if you're lucky help you to market it.

[Harper Kingsley]

Originally Posted by speakingtohe

Er... I thought that was I said. Oh well.

Helen

@Helen: Sorry! I don't know how to read

Here's the Creative Penn on Self-Publishing and the Definition of the Indie Author -> http://www.thecreativepenn.com/2011/...or-definition/ <- It's older, but interesting.

Personally, I don't know why some people get so caught up in fighting over "what" they are. I just like to write and I'm too impatient to spend half of forever waiting for some agent or publisher to get back to me after holding onto my manuscript for 3-6 months before making a decision. And I just think it's kind of a jerk thing they do when they demand exclusivity for submissions - it's a cheap way to keep the competition down.

Monopolies are a downward trend and I think that competition creates new avenues. So the big publishers are losing business, I weep for them, I really do, but it's an opportunity for other people to create new companies and for authors to get more of a chance. And sure, that means a lot of garbage is going out there, but places like Goodreads and LibraryThing really help to sort out the chaff.

I don't really call my self an indie author, but I don't call myself a self-published one either. I just write stuff and try to get people to read it.