Defective by Design is targeting the Kindle

[SanAntone]

Why are we blaming Sony and Amazon? Isn't it the book publishers that are insisting on DRM before they will allow their books to be sold?

[Alisa]

Originally Posted by SanAntone

Why are we blaming Sony and Amazon? Isn't it the book publishers that are insisting on DRM before they will allow their books to be sold?

Absolutely. I've seen that same argument before from other folks calling Amazon hypocritical for selling DRM-free music and DRMed books. Either they don't get how the industry works or they're just trying to prop up their point at the expense of reason. It's not like they get to dictate to the people who own the content how it should be sold. Individual publishers could actually choose to release their works DRM-free. I'm betting there aren't nearly as many publishers as there are record companies that are willing to do that just yet.

[tompe]

Originally Posted by Alisa

Absolutely. I've seen that same argument before from other folks calling Amazon hypocritical for selling DRM-free music and DRMed books. Either they don't get how the industry works or they're just trying to prop up their point at the expense of reason. It's not like they get to dictate to the people who own the content how it should be sold. Individual publishers could actually choose to release their works DRM-free. I'm betting there aren't nearly as many publishers as there are record companies that are willing to do that just yet.

There was a posting and comment thread about this on Boing Boing:

http://www.boingboing.net/2007/12/11...loads-mak.html

Amazon as a large bookseller can to some extent dictate the conditions.

[Ervserver]

an article on Techdirt today about the Kindle has been hacked

http://techdirt.com/articles/20071213/181641.shtml

[Nate the great]

Originally Posted by Ervserver

an article on Techdirt today about the Kindle has been hacked

http://techdirt.com/articles/20071213/181641.shtml

Yep. They are talking about Igor's work.

[ghostwheel]

Originally Posted by dugbug

oh shees, more DRM freedom whiners. I don't buy ebooks as heirlooms. As it is I throw paperbacks away/donate them when im done anyway.

That's one thing annoyed about - I can't donate e-books.

As to the heirlooms comment... I already answered that before. I guess I didn't convince you. I won't go into it again, but some books are heirlooms, for me and probably others.

[Barcey]

Originally Posted by SanAntone

Why are we blaming Sony and Amazon? Isn't it the book publishers that are insisting on DRM before they will allow their books to be sold?

I suspect that they're targeting Amazon because the Kindle is getting a lot of press recently so it's a way to piggyback on it. Sony because they're using the same business model. Just an inexpensive way to mass market their point of view.

There are things that are outside of Sony and Amazon's control but they do have options. For example they could allow DRM free open standard formats when the publishers and authors permitted it. I personally think the criticism is justified, it's certainly not all their fault but they're not blameless innocents either.

[Steven Lyle Jordan]

Originally Posted by Barcey

There are things that are outside of Sony and Amazon's control but they do have options. For example they could allow DRM free open standard formats when the publishers and authors permitted it. I personally think the criticism is justified, it's certainly not all their fault but they're not blameless innocents either.

In that light, since both platforms allow users to load material that is not purchased in their store, and not DRM'd, I'd say that Sony and Amazon have a lot less to be blamed for than the publishers that insist their materials have DRM or they will not be sold.

[coldcell]

I've got quite a lot of texts stored on my machine in tons of formats, and while both Sony devices and Amazon's device can get them onto their screens, it's Amazon's Kindle that has wireless access, able to upload ALL the information about what page I'm on, what I'm reading, what keywords are in the text (if you want to be really paranoid). I'm sorry, but I just don't like the idea of a 1984-ish big brother always watching you, and reading is really personal to me. Maybe it's not that important to others, but the idea of having $Corporation know how many times I read "Catcher in the Rye" sort of disturbs me.


P.S. To anyone who's going to retort "they aren't, they wouldn't", times change, and unfortunately the trust of it not changing has been placed with a company, succeptible to profit decisions and government coersion.

[RWood]

While we should not blame either Sony or Amazon for offering a DRM format on their readers, they are responsible for the DRM that they selected to be on their reader. Before the Sony was introduced there were (as I remember and please correct me if I'm wrong) existing DRM formats -- MS Lit, Mobipocket, and eReader (Palm.) Prior DRM formats for the eBookwise and others had more or less fallen by the wayside and I will ignore the page layout format called PDF.

So Sony had a choice of developing their own (which they did as an extension of their prior Reader) or using one of the existing formats. Lots of companies have gotten burned by following MS' "standards" such as all those who marketed "Plays for Sure" mp3 players when MS turned around and introduced a new scheme with their Zune. eReader is simple but lacks many features while Mobipocket is owned by Amazon which I believe Sony saw even then as future competition. The only way they could offer a Reader with current books was to implement their own format.

Likewise, when Amazon came to market they could not utilize Sony's format and to offer Mobipocket would mean that they would go against every vendor currently offering Mobi books. They could not be as aggressive in pricing the NYT bestsellers as they are if they had to honor the existing agreements with the Mobi vendors. Had they selected Mobi as their DRM format of choice one of two results would have occurred: (1) Most of the sellers would have turned in their rights to distribute Mobi as they could not compete with Amazon or (2) If Amazon had not been aggressive in pricing then the Kindle could possibly still be available for next day shipping. Sure, some vendors would wait around to see if the interest in Kindle raised their sales but the new Adobe Digital Editions would take off like gangbusters and eclipse Mobi of the number 1 position.

Just my 2 cents worth.

[TheLongshot]

Originally Posted by Alisa

Actually it wasn't so much the keyboard that was the big advantage for me, it was the ability to search and do lookups. That was actually worth the extra money to me. An ebook reader without searching or at least a dictionary seems boneheadedly stupid to me.

While I see the usefulness of a search, as long as I can take the book onto my computer and do a search, I'm fine with that. I mostly use my device to read books. It certainly isn't worth a $100 premium to me.

Jason

[Alisa]

Originally Posted by TheLongshot

While I see the usefulness of a search, as long as I can take the book onto my computer and do a search, I'm fine with that. I mostly use my device to read books. It certainly isn't worth a $100 premium to me.

Jason

For me $100 isn't that much compared with how great it is to be able just think about something and have it even when I'm nowhere near a computer. Add to that the better content selection and good prices (though other shops are lowering their prices now to compete which is fantastic for everyone), that $100 seems like even less of a big deal.

[montsnmags]

Originally Posted by TheLongshot

While I see the usefulness of a search, as long as I can take the book onto my computer and do a search, I'm fine with that. I mostly use my device to read books. It certainly isn't worth a $100 premium to me.

Jason

For me it's worth more than a $100 premium. I'd pay several for text search. I realise some people say that they just want to read, and don't want to be taken "out of" what they're reading, but it's also for that reason that I would like an ebook reader device that does text search (or, - perhaps, "and" - dictionary lookup, as with the Cybook). I don't want to partially "eat" a book, and come back for bits-and-pieces later that I didn't know how to digest at the time. I like to chase the allusions immediately so that I can move on with the flow. Hey, sometimes I just need to know who the hell 'Galadios' is, or where "Dungeon's Peak' is, or what the hell the prophecy said again about the hero getting the Dark God's crystal ring. It is important to me to understand everything, and understand it within the context of when and what I'm reading.

This is not to say that is the way everyone "eats". I can understand, firstly, that many folk are far smarter than me and likely don't need that lookup, whether because they know the word or reference, or because they can finagle the meaning from the context. I also completely understand why, for many, this kind of search and lookup is the very interference I am saying it's avoiding for me (sort-of like pausing a brilliant movie to go get a drink - it can be a "rude interruption" to immersion).

However, purely for me, this is what I wanted an ebook device for, and, naively, thought it was the first feature any such device would have. From comments against, or that place in low on priority, I am now able to see different points of view, and understand them even if it is not my preference, and even if it still does surprise me in its absence from devices ('tis often hard to see beyond the boundaries of one's own world-view ).

So, if the Kindle searches as I believe I have seen it do, and with the Cybook's alternative of using "dictionaries" (acknowledging their cost), then, yes, I'd pay a premium for that feature. I'd buy a Kindle for its feature-set right now. Of course, the Kindle is not an option for me (Australia), so it looks like the Cybook might be what I'm after. Saying that, I look forward to "updates" and "new products" from all suppliers. Just so long as good, simple, dedicated ebook devices (much like those that occupy the Device Matrix in the Wiki right right now) don't head towards disappearance, like good, simple mobile/cell phones often seem to be doing - victims of "convergence"-saturation, which often brings a flood of do-everything devices that do everything averagely (or worse, poorly) and nothing (or very little) well.

Cheers,
Marc

[JohnClif]

I've seen the 'defective by design' and 'kindle swindle' tags on various ebooks on the Amazon website, and to be honest they irritate the hell out of me.

I see this tactic as similar to those WTO protestors who smashed the Niketown windows and stole products, to show their disapproval of global trade. Hypocrites.

If you don't want a Kindle, don't buy one. Defacing the Amazon website, with bogus tags or bogus comments, only hardens the viewpoints of those who disagree with you.

The Kindle is an Amazon product. Amazon has the right to determine what they sell, and how they sell. Customers have the right to buy, or to not buy.

DRM really isn't a big deal, IMO. The only reason I'd worry about it is if Amazon goes out of business, and then someone will write an AZW cracker and Amazon won't be around to sue them.

[Alisa]

I just don't get why the Kindle is so polarizing. People seem to be getting really angry about it. Hundreds of people have written "reviews" on the Amazon site, many with appalling misinformation, that are just rants about why they don't want one. It's truly bizarre. If I don't want a product, I don't buy it. I don't go ranting to people about why they shouldn't either. It reminds me of the strangers that came up to me in parking lots accosting me about why I shouldn't have bought my Prius.