The Cult of Kindle? Are we there yet?

[catsittingstill]

I love the popcorn icon. :-)

I don't consider myself a cult member, but I have gone out there and made a few corrective comments when I saw misinformation about the Kindle being posted. Since I'm not even sure I will buy a Kindle (but I like them, I do... but I have no money and anyway I should wait and see how they do in the long run; never be the first kid on the block to buy anything), an attack on the Kindle is not realistically an attack on the core of my self image.

It just makes me mad to see people who don't even bother to read the product description all the way to the end before they start badmouthing something.

Though honestly, I guess I wouldn't care as much if it was, say, a videogame for playing football.

The Kindle just seems like a magic book to me, and that seems very cool. Yes, I think it would be good if publishers decided to let Amazon sell their books without DRM; yes, I think it would be good if Amazon took the Baen route and sold in all formats to all comers; yes, I think it would be good if the Kindle supported epub natively; yes, I notice that many people have trouble with the page turn buttons, and that white may tend to look grubby after a while, and that Sprint doesn't always cover all the areas they say they cover, and I agree these are all legitimate issues, and I'm okay with people bringing them up.

But seeing people claim that Amazon charges you to put your own content on the Kindle, or that browsing costs 10 cents a click, or that Kindle "locks you into Amazon" just makes me mad. There's enough real issues to think about without having to wade through fake ones.

[Steven Lyle Jordan]

Originally Posted by allen.gotwald

I'm a Sony 505 owner but I can appreciate the disclaimer. If a single book can be distributed to 500,000 people for free from a single source (a unique distribution capability of the internet of e-books) authors are hurt. Then again, I found an LRF copy of a sci-fi book I hadn't seen in 30 years that I'd read as a youngster. The book doesn't exist on shelves or on e-book store web sites so I didn't feel guilty about downloading and reading this treasure (that had $.25 on the cover). That's a capability unique to the net that normal distribution services don't cater to. It's a conundrum.

It is a big issue. Although that is certainly one of the greatest single advantages of the digital realm, actually there's no reason why that e-book couldn't have still paid the author their due for your obtaining it.

Obviously it's up to the authors or publishers to work that out, and essentially set up an out-of-print e-book system. It's up to them whether they care if you just took one of their books for free. If not, you can enjoy whatever they deem is okay to give away.

Myself, I'd also be tempted by something that was not available in any other format, and was there for free to take. But I would probably exhaust the possibilities that there was no legitimate source for the material. I would also consider whether the book was considered in public domain before downloading it. Otherwise, I would likely leave it alone, since technically, downloading it without the author's permission would be wrong.

But that's me.

[watcha]

Originally Posted by Alexander Turcic

Soon we'll have tags and prefixes we can add to threads. That should make things easier

And wouldn't it be great as well to have the option to download a complete thread to your Iliad? Yes, I know there's a print option (which allows me to create a pdf), but that only does the one web page.

There's so much good reading here, but why must I sit in front of my desktop?

[kacir]

Originally Posted by HarryT

What "propriatory lockdown" are you referring to? You don't have to buy books from Amazon if you don't wish to - you can load your own content.

With "propriatory lockdown" was trying to avoid the DRM word. I wanted the discussion to stay on the "Kindle cult" topic

You can not read DRMed books from other sources then Amazon on Kindle.

You can not read Amazon ebooks on any other device. Not even PC.
What if you want to copy a paragraph from a reference book to your thesis under the fair use?

You can not convert your DRM free stuff to Amazon format *yourself*. You have to ask Amazon and send your file (possibly containing private information) for conversion. What if Amazon refuses to convert your files in the future? (change of policy, discontinued product, ... whatever reason)

[RWood]

Originally Posted by nekokami

I think this is a different issue, related to to the practice of "stripping" unsold books and returning the covers to publishers for credit. I don't think this reads as a prohibition against loaning or re-sale.... )

Exactly. Like Lp record albums with a notch or hole punched in the jacket, these were either credit returns or promo pieces. (I have seen in the old days a lot of coverless paperbacks in junk sales.)

Is there a Kindle Kult? Sure. It is part of the ebook cult. Lets hope that things take off so much that we can leave the cult status behind. (Although at the rate things are going, soon reading itself will be a cult.)

[zartemis]

Originally Posted by kacir

What if you want to copy a paragraph from a reference book to your thesis under the fair use?

Then you use either the "save page as clipping" or the "highlight" feature on the Kindle, select the section of text you want to use, plug your Kindle USB cable in, transfer over the "My Clippings" file and paste it into your thesis.

[astra]

Originally Posted by kacir

You can not convert your DRM free stuff to Amazon format *yourself*. You have to ask Amazon and send your file (possibly containing private information) for conversion. What if Amazon refuses to convert your files in the future? (change of policy, discontinued product, ... whatever reason)

Will all due unrespect for kindle, you can convert your DRM free stuff into mobipocket format, which is acceptable by kindle. I believe it is a better option because if you abandone kindle and move to any other reader that supports mobipocket, you will be able to read your stuff there as well, while if you had an option to make your own kindle files at home, they would be unreadable on your next non-kindle reader.

So...you should be grateful they didn't eliminate this last open door

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by kacir

You can not convert your DRM free stuff to Amazon format *yourself*.

No, that is incorrect. The Amazon AZW format is just MobiPocket. You can use any of the tools that are available to create MobiPocket format files, transfer them to your Kindle via USB, and they'll work just fine.

[kacir]

Originally Posted by HarryT

No, that is incorrect. The Amazon AZW format is just MobiPocket. You can use any of the tools that are available to create MobiPocket format files, transfer them to your Kindle via USB, and they'll work just fine.

I stand corrected.

I have completely forgotten about that.

I very much hope that this hole will not be "fixed" in an automatic update

[Alisa]

I doubt it would be. I can't imagine Amazon's making a killing off that $.10 transfer fee. It seems likely to me most if not all of that goes to Sprint. I'd always figured it was there to keep the service from being a big loss.

[carld]

I was really surprised by that article and disagree with its premise entirely. If there's any irrational cult developing it's amongst the Kindle bashers who hated the device sight unseen often without even reading the specs. Those hundreds of completely clueless 1-star "reviewers" are the cult not Kindle owners and prospective owners who have actually bothered to learn something about the device they're interested in.

[mrkai]

You want a good reason to bash the Kindle? The TOS.

By agreeing to use Whispernet, you agree to allowing Amazon to not only monitor your *purchases* from them, but any and all of the content on the Kindle, your reading habits in general, and specific information about what you read, what you bookmark, what you annotate and other things that aren't any of their damned business.

Sigh.

And let's not forget that you also give them the right and ability to change the terms of what you "purchased" from them at their discretion, or to repossess what you "purchased" from them without a refund(!) and revoke your "right to use"(!) the physical hardware at all should you violate these nebulous terms, which, are changeable at their discretion.

Good enough for me.

[Alisa]

Considering I already bought most of my books through them before, they already know that. If I really want to keep a reading choice private, I figure I better go buy a paper copy for cash. If I download it or pay with a credit card, I assume it's not a private choice.

[tsgreer]

Originally Posted by mrkai

You want a good reason to bash the Kindle? The TOS.
By agreeing to use Whispernet, you agree to allowing Amazon to not only monitor your *purchases* from them, but any and all of the content on the Kindle, your reading habits in general, and specific information about what you read, what you bookmark, what you annotate and other things that aren't any of their damned business.

Since Whispernet is free, I think my reading privacy is an easy trade off. I couldn't care less if they see what I read. I bought most of my books from them in the first place. Don't get me wrong, I don't want "the man" to infringe on our rights too much, but um, reading privacy? Who cares?

Now maybe there is some corporate stuff or something you don't anyone to see either, but I for one wouldn't put any work stuff on my Kindle. It's all mine and it's all leisure. Of course, this is just my opinion, but those people who carry around their office stuff 24-7 are crazy. Few people lay on their deathbed and wished that they would have worked more or read more work-related books before they passed.

Anyway, when it comes to TOS or DRM or whatnot, if that's what makes ebooks take off, then I will live with it as long as it's easy for me to grab my stuff and read....

[azog]

Originally Posted by mrkai

You want a good reason to bash the Kindle? The TOS.

By agreeing to use Whispernet, you agree to allowing Amazon to not only monitor your *purchases* from them, but any and all of the content on the Kindle, your reading habits in general, and specific information about what you read, what you bookmark, what you annotate and other things that aren't any of their damned business.

Of course, you could operate with the wireless turned off. You can still purchase Kindle books from Amazon, you'd just have to download the old-fashioned way. Considering they already know what I read, regardless of Kindle or not (since they maintain a "Recommended for you ... based on previous purchases"), I don't quite see much difference.