Overreaction to Apple iBook Author

[Namekuseijin]

Originally Posted by HarryT

Windows and MacOS are both almost entirely document-centric. In Windows, if someone e-mails you an Excel spreadsheet or a Word document, you don't have to worry about what application to use to run it - you just open the document and the o/s decides what to open it with.

Precisely so. And they are moving away from that in favor of apps rather than documents in the new wave of truly personal computing.

Originally Posted by leebase

That "just open the excel document" isn't what you guys are cracking it up to be. It's taken YEARS for competitors to come up with halfway decent abilities to work with Msft's office formats. And none of them are perfect...particularly with excel.

Precisely so too. And they've taken years because they were *DAMNED* proprietary formats with no documentation about them whatsoever -- it is a miracle of reverse engineering (and courage to do it because the vendors explicitely prohibit it) for it to work at all so you could read .docs people sent you without using Microsoft software.

It's taken years with the web and html and xml-based data and big open-source projects based on the idea of open-standards for document formats to make people and governments aware of the perils of vendor lock-in. And here we are looking at it again: most native apps could in all honesty be written as plain html page, specially as version 5 rolls on, and proprietary formats all over again.

[CyGuy]

At least MS does not try to claim they own the documents created using Word, that would just be nonsense.

[elcreative]

Originally Posted by CyGuy

At least MS does not try to claim they own the documents created using Word, that would just be nonsense.

And neither does Apple with iAuthor but you never let facts get in the way of your comments - it says if you sell an iAuthor book then it goes through the App shop but if you produce for free then it can go anywhere - hey, it's rather like apps, they go through the app store of Apple BUT NOWHERE does Apple claim they own your book content. Oh and guess what... iAuthor produces things for iOS so why would you use it for other outputs anyway, pretty dumb producing Android or Win targeted output in a format that doesn't work on them... why not use a tool for it that's intended for that job...

Haven't you got the message from earlier in the thread (leebase and HarryT) - NOTHING has disappeared or changed except we have an additional tool for iOS based systems... gosh the world's ending. Take a look at Access sometime... MS doesn't let it work on Mac OS's but I guess that's different in your book because it's MS and therefore totally fair and wonderful... gotta love the forum bias and prejudice...

[sbroome]

Once the micropayment systems improve none of this stuff will matter, all of us who author content will be able to easily distribute through our own websites.

[sbroome]

Originally Posted by elcreative

And neither does Apple with iAuthor but you never let facts get in the way of your comments - it says if you sell an iAuthor book then it goes through the App shop but if you produce for free then it can go anywhere - hey, it's rather like apps, they go through the app store of Apple BUT NOWHERE does Apple claim they own your book content.

He didn't say they're claiming to own the content, he's saying they're claiming to own the outputted file of that content, which is why he said MS doesn't claim to own your .docs. You're rushing to condescention.

[elcreative]

Originally Posted by sbroome

He didn't say they're claiming to own the content, he's saying they're claiming to own the outputted file of that content, which is why he said MS doesn't claim to own your .docs. You're rushing to condescention.

And if you read the damn EULA...it DOESN'T say that!!!

[Soldim]

Originally Posted by elcreative

And if you read the damn EULA...it DOESN'T say that!!!

They behave though as if they do -- asking for an exclusive distributorship.

[petermillard]

Originally Posted by Soldim

They behave though as if they do -- asking for an exclusive distributorship.

And they don't do that either! As has been discussed at length on this thread and others, you can distribute your iBA-created book any way you like - it's only if you want to sell it that you have to do so through the iBookStore.

Now, I'm not a writer, a publisher or a lawyer, but my guess is that if you were absolutely determined not to pay Apple's 30% commission, then there are (probably) ways around this that are as old as the hills and likely familiar to anyone who's ever attended a school or church function e.g. giving the book away for 'free' when you buy the <insert piece of cheap tat here> is one that springs to mind.

But quite why anyone would do that is a mystery to me, I'm afraid; if I'd taken the time and trouble to create a wizzy interactive book with flashy graphics, video etc.., that only runs on one device (iPad) on one platform (iOS) then why on earth would I avoid the one method of distribution (iBookStore) that's on every device on that platform?

By all means, sell through your own website if that's what you want to do - but I think you'll need to be risking a lot more than 30% of sales just to promote and advertise your wares.

Cheers, Pete

[Soldim]

Originally Posted by petermillard

And they don't do that either! As has been discussed at length on this thread and others, you can distribute your iBA-created book any way you like - it's only if you want to sell it that you have to do so through the iBookStore.

That last part is what one generally defines as exclusive distributorship.

Now, I'm not a writer, a publisher or a lawyer, but my guess is that if you were absolutely determined not to pay Apple's 30% commission, then there are (probably) ways around this that are as old as the hills and likely familiar to anyone who's ever attended a school or church function e.g. giving the book away for 'free' when you buy the <insert piece of cheap tat here> is one that springs to mind.

That is, from a legal point of view, rather tricky. If the product is commercially successful, Apple has quite a reasonable chance to sound convincing when arguing that the product that is actually being sold is the iBA created book.

But quite why anyone would do that is a mystery to me, I'm afraid; if I'd taken the time and trouble to create a wizzy interactive book with flashy graphics, video etc.., that only runs on one device (iPad) on one platform (iOS) then why on earth would I avoid the one method of distribution (iBookStore) that's on every device on that platform?

By all means, sell through your own website if that's what you want to do - but I think you'll need to be risking a lot more than 30% of sales just to promote and advertise your wares.

There's two relatively obvious reasons. First, the way the EULA is worded, a separate agreement will have to be drafted -- Apple could push up their cut to any percentage they'd like. Worse is, they have the freedom to refuse to sell the book, in which case the author is stuck since there would not be any way to make revenue from a book.
The iBA could be used to make, eh, lets say spectacular, versions of the Kamasutra. I doubt Apple will put it up. For way less clear cut cases Apple has made curious decisions.

[elcreative]

Originally Posted by Soldim

They behave though as if they do -- asking for an exclusive distributorship.

Yes, really unreasonable... they give you a free tool and let you do what you like with the content for free but if you use the FREE tool to make a commercial item then they want you to sell it from the PRIMARY and most widely known distribution point for paid iOS apps... real hardship... if you don't want that then just use another tool for any other platforms... life is tough...

[Soldim]

Originally Posted by elcreative

Yes, really unreasonable... they give you a free tool and let you do what you like with the content for free but if you use the FREE tool to make a commercial item then they want you to sell it from the PRIMARY and most widely known distribution point for paid iOS apps... real hardship... if you don't want that then just use another tool for any other platforms... life is tough...

Whether live is tough or not is not quite relevant here (nobody gets forced to use the tool OTOH nobody forced Apple to give it away for free) ... legally there are some kinks with the EULA, which I tried to point out. If pointing such an issue out gets people on their high horses, so be it.

[elcreative]

Originally Posted by Soldim

Whether live is tough or not is not quite relevant here (nobody gets forced to use the tool OTOH nobody forced Apple to give it away for free) ... legally there are some kinks with the EULA, which I tried to point out. If pointing such an issue out gets people on their high horses, so be it.

Sorry, don't like riding so no horses, high or otherwise... I do confess that I was distracted and missed your last sentence about the Kama Sutra but even there, Apple are quite clear about their attitudes to "Adult" and similar content so, again, if you don't like the attitude then use another platform... there is no compulsion to use this FREE tool to go on an iOS platform and plenty of other platforms that care less about content...

[SleepyBob]

Just because other methods may exist to create books doesn't make Apple's stance any less wrong-headed.

[elcreative]

Originally Posted by SleepyBob

Just because other methods may exist to create books doesn't make Apple's stance any less wrong-headed.

IT'S a FREE tool, it takes away nothing that previously existed, it adds another option to the way product is made... IT'S FREE and people do nothing but moan about something they don't have to have/use or even acknowledge... It really is true, you can never satisfy some people...

[HansTWN]

I am the last person on earth you would call an Apple supporter, but in this case they did nothing wrong. Obviously it would not be good for the general public if this was widely adopted, but we can't blame Apple for trying...