Amazon has opened a hornets nest!

[MrsJoseph]

Originally Posted by taustin

Given the circumstances, since they had the ability to do so, they didn't have much choice, legally. Amazon's real mistake was lying about having the ability - when they introducted the Kindle, part of the online chatter was over whether you would be buying or renting books on it. And Amazon made it clear that once you bought the book, it was yours. They lied.

IMO what was worse was not being upfront with the information once they learned about the problem.

Sending a simple email to customers detailing the issue and the action to fix it would have been (dare I say)...much less big brother like.

[carld]

Originally Posted by taustin

I did say in their early years.

Ahh, okay.

[ProfCrash]

Originally Posted by CyGuy

The big stink was the fact that Amazon had the ability to remove content remotely! They reached right into peoples homes and stole books they had already paid for. Someone should have went to prison for that one...

As does Barnes and Nobles, Sony, and Kobo and any other e-reader with WiFi or 3G. They should not have done it, every one effected got two free e-books and most got their copy of Ninteen Eighty-Four back. Amazon made a huge public apology and it has not happened again.

[CyGuy]

Originally Posted by ProfCrash

As does Barnes and Nobles, Sony, and Kobo and any other e-reader with WiFi or 3G. They should not have done it, every one effected got two free e-books and most got their copy of Ninteen Eighty-Four back. Amazon made a huge public apology and it has not happened again.

The ability to do this is the issue. They should not have the ability to view, manage, or edit any content that is located on a personal device.

[ProfCrash]

And neither should Sony, Kobo, or Nook. Any device that has a wireless system and that sells books will allow the book seller to potentially remove a book from the device. I have no idea if they have all closed that loop so that they cannot do it. I do know that I back up all of my purchases on my computer so that if someone wants to do it they can and then I can put my book right back on my device.

[murraypaul]

Originally Posted by CyGuy

The ability to do this is the issue. They should not have the ability to view, manage, or edit any content that is located on a personal device.

They have to be able to.
If you buy a book, download it to your device, then find something wrong with it, complain and get a refund, they shouldn't be able to remove the book? You get to keep the money and the book, that doesn't sound right, does it?

[CyGuy]

Originally Posted by murraypaul

They have to be able to.
If you buy a book, download it to your device, then find something wrong with it, complain and get a refund, they shouldn't be able to remove the book? You get to keep the money and the book, that doesn't sound right, does it?

They should simply send you a notice asking you to take some kind of action. Reaching into your phone and removing anything is a form of "breaking and entering" in my opinion. This should never be allowed, the ability should not exist.

[murraypaul]

Originally Posted by CyGuy

They should simply send you a notice asking you to take some kind of action. Reaching into your phone and removing anything is a form of "breaking and entering" in my opinion. This should never be allowed, the ability should not exist.

So you want a refund and to keep the item?
IMO, in asking for a refund you are giving permission for the item to be taken away.

[CyGuy]

Originally Posted by murraypaul

So you want a refund and to keep the item?
IMO, in asking for a refund you are giving permission for the item to be taken away.

I don't understand what you mean. They should simply ask that you return the item, and make the refund contingent upon the return. They should not be able to "take" the item back. If you have the device in your pocket and they take something off of it, they reached into your pocket and took your property. Where is the confusion?

[Hellmark]

Originally Posted by murraypaul

So you want a refund and to keep the item?
IMO, in asking for a refund you are giving permission for the item to be taken away.

He didn't say anything of the sort. He just said that he doesn't think they should be able to take it without consent. Big difference between wanting to keep the item and get a refund, and just wanting to give consent before the ball gets rolling for anything return or refund related happens. That way, you have a chance to back up notes, etc that you would lose when you lose access to the book, or even decide you don't want a refund and to just keep the copy you have. For the latter, with physical things, if you buy something and they find out later that they weren't supposed to sell it, you're not required to return it, so why should ebooks be any different?

[ProfCrash]

And they don't take things without consent. There is one example of this happening. It was two- three years ago. I think we can safely say that it was a rare event.

The lesson everyone with an e-reader should learn is to store your books on your computer so that you have a copy of what you bought just in case something like this happens again.

It is more likely that the independent bookstore you bought your books from might have their contract with publishers change and can no longer keep your book in their system and you lose access. I have heard of this happening more then once and screwing over a ton of folks.

If you buy a book, save it on your hard drive. Then you don't have to worry about the book being lost. Pretty simple.

[taustin]

Originally Posted by ProfCrash

As does Barnes and Nobles, Sony, and Kobo and any other e-reader with WiFi or 3G. They should not have done it, every one effected got two free e-books and most got their copy of Ninteen Eighty-Four back. Amazon made a huge public apology and it has not happened again.

But with the nook, it's obvious they can remove stuff remotely, because that's the only way to remove stuff from the device bought through it (though the web site account). They were, at least, up front about it.

[taustin]

Originally Posted by CyGuy

They should simply send you a notice asking you to take some kind of action. Reaching into your phone and removing anything is a form of "breaking and entering" in my opinion. This should never be allowed, the ability should not exist.

By and large, you likely agreed to it when you clicked "I Agree" on the terms of service, or signed a contract. If you don't like their terms, take your business elsewhere. If enough people do so, it creates a market for devices that don't include that ability. If not enough people do so, then not enough people do so to matter. It's called a free market, and sometimes, it suckes to be in the minority.

[taustin]

Originally Posted by CyGuy

I don't understand what you mean. They should simply ask that you return the item, and make the refund contingent upon the return. They should not be able to "take" the item back. If you have the device in your pocket and they take something off of it, they reached into your pocket and took your property. Where is the confusion?

How do you return an ebook? Email them back a copy?

[taustin]

Originally Posted by ProfCrash

And they don't take things without consent. There is one example of this happening. It was two- three years ago. I think we can safely say that it was a rare event.

The lesson everyone with an e-reader should learn is to store your books on your computer so that you have a copy of what you bought just in case something like this happens again.

It is more likely that the independent bookstore you bought your books from might have their contract with publishers change and can no longer keep your book in their system and you lose access. I have heard of this happening more then once and screwing over a ton of folks.

If you buy a book, save it on your hard drive. Then you don't have to worry about the book being lost. Pretty simple.

Provided that it either doesn't use a DRM package that requires access to an authentication server to copy the file on to a new device (which, IIRC, ADE does), or you're willing to strip off the DRM (which may or may not be legal for you to do).