illegal ebooks how many are there? - Page 3

DiapDealer · 12-30-2011, 01:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Giggleton

What is this illegality you speak of?

Nothing to worry your pretty little head over, Gigs. It's just a big bad monster that only those of us who live in the real world have to contend with every now again.

crich70 · 12-30-2011, 08:07 PM

I think part of the problem is the lack of substance an ebook has compared to a pbook. I mean with a pbook you have to go to the actual store to acquire a copy (stolen or paid for) and whether a person pays for their book or steals it there is something physical about it (the book), and you have to do real labor to get it (and pay $ if you get it legally), but with an ebook you can either go through a legal store or download an illegal copy with an equal lack of effort (not that it being easy makes it right). The difference being that with a legal ebook you may find your bank account diminished slightly to cover the purchase price. You can't hold an ebook in your hand like a pbook. You can hold an ebook reader, but the actual ebook itself has no real substance.

speakingtohe · 12-30-2011, 11:40 PM

@crich70
Ebooks have perceived substance for me.
I think of my reader as a bookshelf in a way and used to try to turn pages physically on occasion.

Whatever the format it is all about the story for me, but I do back up my books to DVD every so often so they do acquire a physical presence of a sort.

Some may say that is not the same thing. I disagree. Most people have no problem viewing a CD or DVD of music or video as a physical object containing their content.

But most people do not even think about the fact that recorded music and video has always been stored on media. One always needed a player/projector to access the content of music and in most cases video.

And most people have no problem viewing a tape/DVD/record/reel/spindle/spool as an object that they own, even if they cannot hold the tape up to their ears or the DVD to their eyes/ears and access it without a player.

IMO ebooks have as much substance as other digital media not including email, online publications, ebills.

The big difference is with ebooks there is another option. You can buy the physical book and hold it in your hands and have your letters/bills/flyers mailed to you in a physical form.

So you are fortunate in a way. You can buy a recording but can't play it without a player. You can buy a paper book at any time. So that is lucky for you don't you think?

Helen

Koobe · 12-31-2011, 05:56 AM

Not sure I agree with the lack of substance idea. To me the substance of a book is the content, not the object. This has become much clearer to me since I started reading them on a screen.

Price, up to a point, is less relevant to me than the effort relative to the reward involved in reading a book. I've no problem paying $10 for something I enjoy versus 99 cents for something that is hard work. I know that I could probably get that $10 book for free illegally, but I'd feel uncomfortable. And that would take the edge off my enjoyment of the book.

Maybe that's just me. Maybe not. But, I suspect most people are happier to pay if they feel they're getting good value rather than live with a nagging conscience.

The problem is that getting good value is so difficult because media companies produce such a huge amount of dross in relation to the nuggets. Sure, some of this has to do with the audiences' personal tastes, but until this can be addressed by publishers of all types of media, piracy won't go away. I'd like a system whereby if I consume more than 50% of any medium I choose (be it film, book or music), I get charged, but if I give up before the halfway mark, I don't get charged.

cfrizz · 12-31-2011, 11:15 AM

Bingo!!!

I prefer that substance in a reader that won't collect dust or simply start turning yellow & falling apart with age.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Koobe

Not sure I agree with the lack of substance idea. To me the substance of a book is the content, not the object. This has become much clearer to me since I started reading them on a screen.

CommonReader · 12-31-2011, 11:47 AM

The trashier the book, the more likely it is you can find it somewhere for download (slightly provocative, I admit). The amount of cheap romance (bodice rippers) and of neck biters of all sorts that can be found is simply spectacular. Non fiction is also much more scarce than fiction.

crich70 · 12-31-2011, 03:32 PM

I didn't mean lack of substance to mean lack of content. Just that the text isn't in an unalterable format. With pbooks you can alter things to a certain extent by ripping, burning or scribbling over the pages (though why anyone would want to I don't know) but the text itself doesn't change. You can't erase an e for example and put an a in it's place within a word, but such is childs play with a few ebook tools. I think that lack of physical substance is what some mean by an ebook not being a real book too. I do see ebooks as being just as real as their pbook counterparts myself but there is a difference between a physical book and one composed of bits of data. It's not an important difference (IMO) but there is one all the same. With records or CD's or DVD's you have a media that is generally unalterable. You can't erase them and record a new piece of music or movie once you have something on it. If you have a recording of say Kenny Roger's song "The Gambler" on a record or CD then you have a stable piece of media that you can touch, but who can touch an Mp3 of that same song? In that sense the song becomes a little less real in that it can't be directly touched. And an ebook is no different from that. It's still a book, still contains the same information that its pbook cousin has, but it's more fluid since it can go from say Kindle 3 to Kindle Fire to Kindle for pc etc. so that the media used to read said text changes in the blink of an eye. You don't see that with records or CD's. I think its that point psychologically that allows people to not consider it wrong to seek illegal copies. I also think that if there were a thread for those who havn't acquired an illegal copy of an ebook that it would be very short. All people are subject to temptation after all and who hasn't wanted to have an ebook version of a text that may not even have a legal ecopy yet. Or who hasn't wanted a copy of a book that is (for some reason) set at a price that looks insane?

xg4bx · 12-31-2011, 06:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by crich70

I didn't mean lack of substance to mean lack of content. Just that the text isn't in an unalterable format. With pbooks you can alter things to a certain extent by ripping, burning or scribbling over the pages (though why anyone would want to I don't know) but the text itself doesn't change. You can't erase an e for example and put an a in it's place within a word, but such is childs play with a few ebook tools. I think that lack of physical substance is what some mean by an ebook not being a real book too. I do see ebooks as being just as real as their pbook counterparts myself but there is a difference between a physical book and one composed of bits of data. It's not an important difference (IMO) but there is one all the same. With records or CD's or DVD's you have a media that is generally unalterable. You can't erase them and record a new piece of music or movie once you have something on it. If you have a recording of say Kenny Roger's song "The Gambler" on a record or CD then you have a stable piece of media that you can touch, but who can touch an Mp3 of that same song? In that sense the song becomes a little less real in that it can't be directly touched. And an ebook is no different from that. It's still a book, still contains the same information that its pbook cousin has, but it's more fluid since it can go from say Kindle 3 to Kindle Fire to Kindle for pc etc. so that the media used to read said text changes in the blink of an eye. You don't see that with records or CD's. I think its that point psychologically that allows people to not consider it wrong to seek illegal copies. I also think that if there were a thread for those who havn't acquired an illegal copy of an ebook that it would be very short. All people are subject to temptation after all and who hasn't wanted to have an ebook version of a text that may not even have a legal ecopy yet. Or who hasn't wanted a copy of a book that is (for some reason) set at a price that looks insane?

for better or worse, thats my thought process. lines of code aren't real to me. a book i can hold and feel and literally see the process that went into its manufacture is real. the kindle itself is the only thing thats "real" to me in the ebook experience. having a physical item in hand implies ownership to me, not something that only resides on a hard drive that i can only see when i will it into existence.

taosaur · 12-31-2011, 07:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xg4bx

for better or worse, thats my thought process. lines of code aren't real to me. a book i can hold and feel and literally see the process that went into its manufacture is real. the kindle itself is the only thing thats "real" to me in the ebook experience. having a physical item in hand implies ownership to me, not something that only resides on a hard drive that i can only see when i will it into existence.

I would say the opposite. The physical properties of books seem less like something I own than a burden I once had to bear to get the content, bearing with them a number of impassable limitations on my use. I feel much more in control of media that is more or less always ready-to-hand, and can be backed up and indexed easily. An attachment to the objects and the process of acquiring and using them is understandable, but for me the benefits of the e-book experience have thoroughly displaced any such sentiment.

Kumabjorn · 01-01-2012, 09:26 AM

Copies of "How to kill a mockingbird" and "Catcher in the rye" would be illegal copies, no? I haven't found them in any ebook store yet.

HarryT · 01-01-2012, 09:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kumabjorn

Copies of "How to kill a mockingbird" and "Catcher in the rye" would be illegal copies, no? I haven't found them in any ebook store yet.

Correct. Neither is available as a legal eBook.

Kumabjorn · 01-01-2012, 09:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HarryT

Correct. Neither is available as a legal eBook.

If I would like to put those on one of my e-readers I could either scan and proof them or download them. Scanning and proofing two books would probably require half a day, finding them on the darknet about 5 minutes, downloading another minute or so. No wonder the Darknet is healthy and thriving. But oohhh wonder why publishers wouldn't prefer to get a few bobs rather than force me to learn how to use the Darknet.

HarryT · 01-01-2012, 09:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kumabjorn

If I would like to put those on one of my e-readers I could either scan and proof them or download them. Scanning and proofing two books would probably require half a day, finding them on the darknet about 5 minutes, downloading another minute or so. No wonder the Darknet is healthy and thriving. But oohhh wonder why publishers wouldn't prefer to get a few bobs rather than force me to learn how to use the Darknet.

Probably nothing to do with the publisher; much more likely to be the author.

Kumabjorn · 01-01-2012, 05:35 PM

I was under the impression that they were deceased. But perhaps their heirs are upholding some deathbed promise?

cfrizz · 01-01-2012, 07:22 PM

Only one is dead, and he just died a little less than a year ago. You might be dead before his works pass on to public domain.

Nelle Harper Lee (born April 28, 1926) is an American author known for her 1960 Pulitzer-Prize-winning novel To Kill a Mockingbird, which deals with the issues of racism that were observed by the author as a child in her hometown of Monroeville, Alabama.

Jerome David Salinger (January 1, 1919 – January 27, 2010) was an American author, best known for his 1951 novel The Catcher in the Rye, as well as his reclusive nature. His last original published work was in 1965; he gave his last interview in 1980.

12-30-2011, 08:07 PM	#32
crich70 Grand Sorcerer Posts: 11,310 Karma: 43993832 Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Monroe Wisconsin Device: K3, Kindle Paperwhite, Calibre, and Mobipocket for Pc (netbook)	I think part of the problem is the lack of substance an ebook has compared to a pbook. I mean with a pbook you have to go to the actual store to acquire a copy (stolen or paid for) and whether a person pays for their book or steals it there is something physical about it (the book), and you have to do real labor to get it (and pay $ if you get it legally), but with an ebook you can either go through a legal store or download an illegal copy with an equal lack of effort (not that it being easy makes it right). The difference being that with a legal ebook you may find your bank account diminished slightly to cover the purchase price. You can't hold an ebook in your hand like a pbook. You can hold an ebook reader, but the actual ebook itself has no real substance. Last edited by crich70; 12-30-2011 at 08:09 PM.

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12-30-2011, 11:40 PM	#33
speakingtohe Wizard Posts: 4,812 Karma: 26912940 Join Date: Apr 2010 Device: sony PRS-T1 and T3, Kobo Mini and Aura HD, Tablet	@crich70 Ebooks have perceived substance for me. I think of my reader as a bookshelf in a way and used to try to turn pages physically on occasion. Whatever the format it is all about the story for me, but I do back up my books to DVD every so often so they do acquire a physical presence of a sort. Some may say that is not the same thing. I disagree. Most people have no problem viewing a CD or DVD of music or video as a physical object containing their content. But most people do not even think about the fact that recorded music and video has always been stored on media. One always needed a player/projector to access the content of music and in most cases video. And most people have no problem viewing a tape/DVD/record/reel/spindle/spool as an object that they own, even if they cannot hold the tape up to their ears or the DVD to their eyes/ears and access it without a player. IMO ebooks have as much substance as other digital media not including email, online publications, ebills. The big difference is with ebooks there is another option. You can buy the physical book and hold it in your hands and have your letters/bills/flyers mailed to you in a physical form. So you are fortunate in a way. You can buy a recording but can't play it without a player. You can buy a paper book at any time. So that is lucky for you don't you think? Helen

12-31-2011, 05:56 AM	#34
Koobe Junior Member Posts: 9 Karma: 12 Join Date: Dec 2011 Device: Kindle	Not sure I agree with the lack of substance idea. To me the substance of a book is the content, not the object. This has become much clearer to me since I started reading them on a screen. Price, up to a point, is less relevant to me than the effort relative to the reward involved in reading a book. I've no problem paying $10 for something I enjoy versus 99 cents for something that is hard work. I know that I could probably get that $10 book for free illegally, but I'd feel uncomfortable. And that would take the edge off my enjoyment of the book. Maybe that's just me. Maybe not. But, I suspect most people are happier to pay if they feel they're getting good value rather than live with a nagging conscience. The problem is that getting good value is so difficult because media companies produce such a huge amount of dross in relation to the nuggets. Sure, some of this has to do with the audiences' personal tastes, but until this can be addressed by publishers of all types of media, piracy won't go away. I'd like a system whereby if I consume more than 50% of any medium I choose (be it film, book or music), I get charged, but if I give up before the halfway mark, I don't get charged.

12-31-2011, 11:47 AM	#36
CommonReader Fanatic Posts: 528 Karma: 2530000 Join Date: Dec 2010 Device: Sony PRS-T3, PRS-650, Vaio Tap 11, iPad Mini	The trashier the book, the more likely it is you can find it somewhere for download (slightly provocative, I admit). The amount of cheap romance (bodice rippers) and of neck biters of all sorts that can be found is simply spectacular. Non fiction is also much more scarce than fiction.

12-31-2011, 03:32 PM	#37
crich70 Grand Sorcerer Posts: 11,310 Karma: 43993832 Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Monroe Wisconsin Device: K3, Kindle Paperwhite, Calibre, and Mobipocket for Pc (netbook)	I didn't mean lack of substance to mean lack of content. Just that the text isn't in an unalterable format. With pbooks you can alter things to a certain extent by ripping, burning or scribbling over the pages (though why anyone would want to I don't know) but the text itself doesn't change. You can't erase an e for example and put an a in it's place within a word, but such is childs play with a few ebook tools. I think that lack of physical substance is what some mean by an ebook not being a real book too. I do see ebooks as being just as real as their pbook counterparts myself but there is a difference between a physical book and one composed of bits of data. It's not an important difference (IMO) but there is one all the same. With records or CD's or DVD's you have a media that is generally unalterable. You can't erase them and record a new piece of music or movie once you have something on it. If you have a recording of say Kenny Roger's song "The Gambler" on a record or CD then you have a stable piece of media that you can touch, but who can touch an Mp3 of that same song? In that sense the song becomes a little less real in that it can't be directly touched. And an ebook is no different from that. It's still a book, still contains the same information that its pbook cousin has, but it's more fluid since it can go from say Kindle 3 to Kindle Fire to Kindle for pc etc. so that the media used to read said text changes in the blink of an eye. You don't see that with records or CD's. I think its that point psychologically that allows people to not consider it wrong to seek illegal copies. I also think that if there were a thread for those who havn't acquired an illegal copy of an ebook that it would be very short. All people are subject to temptation after all and who hasn't wanted to have an ebook version of a text that may not even have a legal ecopy yet. Or who hasn't wanted a copy of a book that is (for some reason) set at a price that looks insane?

01-01-2012, 09:26 AM	#40
Kumabjorn Basculocolpic Posts: 4,356 Karma: 20181319 Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Sweden Device: Kindle 3 WiFi, Kindle 4SO, Kindle for Android, Sony PRS-350 and PRS-T1	Copies of "How to kill a mockingbird" and "Catcher in the rye" would be illegal copies, no? I haven't found them in any ebook store yet.

01-01-2012, 05:35 PM	#44
Kumabjorn Basculocolpic Posts: 4,356 Karma: 20181319 Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Sweden Device: Kindle 3 WiFi, Kindle 4SO, Kindle for Android, Sony PRS-350 and PRS-T1	I was under the impression that they were deceased. But perhaps their heirs are upholding some deathbed promise?

01-01-2012, 07:22 PM	#45
cfrizz Wizard Posts: 1,570 Karma: 36389706 Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Quincy, MA Device: Samsung 54A, Kobo Libra H2O, Samsung S6 Lite	Only one is dead, and he just died a little less than a year ago. You might be dead before his works pass on to public domain. Nelle Harper Lee (born April 28, 1926) is an American author known for her 1960 Pulitzer-Prize-winning novel To Kill a Mockingbird, which deals with the issues of racism that were observed by the author as a child in her hometown of Monroeville, Alabama. Jerome David Salinger (January 1, 1919 – January 27, 2010) was an American author, best known for his 1951 novel The Catcher in the Rye, as well as his reclusive nature. His last original published work was in 1965; he gave his last interview in 1980.

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