Swearing in books

[mr ploppy]

Originally Posted by HarryT

As a side-note, I've always found the American use of this word "f-bomb" to refer to the word "fuck" very amusing. Is it supposed to be less "shocking"?

It always makes me think of Tom Jones for some reason. My second hand copy of the Siege of Trencher's Farm has the only swearword in the entire book scribbled out in biro. I've often wondered at the sanity of the person who did that. But I suppose I'm lucky they didn't just tear the page out.

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by mr ploppy

It always makes me think of Tom Jones for some reason. My second hand copy of the Siege of Trencher's Farm has the only swearword in the entire book scribbled out in biro. I've often wondered at the sanity of the person who did that. But I suppose I'm lucky they didn't just tear the page out.

In a similar vein, I proofed one of my H. Rider Haggard books against a scanned PDF I downloaded from Google Books, which had every occurrence of the word "nigger" crossed out. I guess that some people feel the need to censor books.

[mr ploppy]

Originally Posted by HarryT

In a similar vein, I proofed one of my H. Rider Haggard books against a scanned PDF I downloaded from Google Books, which had every occurrence of the word "nigger" crossed out. I guess that some people feel the need to censor books.

There are people who want to censor everything, but the amount of time they would need to stare at the offending words just to scribble them out it would be counterproductive. The words would be burnt into their brain, corrupting them and damning them to an eternity in hell.

[mattlynn]

Thanks for all the advice....Matt Lynn [Promotional in-text link removed - MODERATOR]

[M T McGuire]

I'd say, swearing is just words. However, I watched an Eddie Murphy set once and by the end I was thinking, "If he says mother f***r one more time I'm going to get up there and lamp him." The same word again and again, as someone said, IS lazy and gets old. There is a huge range of swear words and we use them all so if a book contains swearing it should reflect that. I have met a few squaddies and they do swear but the language is rich and vibrant, frankly, it amazes me how much lateral thinking people put into swearing but then, I'm British and we are a bit like that. But I suspect the problem the OP has encountered is not the swearing just a lack of lateral swearing thought. May I recommend Viz Magazine's Rogers Profanasaurus Rex for a mine of fabulous swear words. Or you can invent a new world and make up swear words that aren't in real life (a bit of a cheat, that one but a handy get out for the fantasy writer).

Cheers

MTM

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by M T McGuire

I'd say, swearing is just words. However, I watched an Eddie Murphy set once and by the end I was thinking, "If he says mother f***r one more time I'm going to get up there and lamp him." The same word again and again, as someone said, IS lazy and gets old. There is a huge range of swear words and we use them all so if a book contains swearing it should reflect that. I have met a few squaddies and they do swear but the language is rich and vibrant, frankly, it amazes me how much lateral thinking people put into swearing but then, I'm British and we are a bit like that. But I suspect the problem the OP has encountered is not the swearing just a lack of lateral swearing thought. May I recommend Viz Magazine's Rogers Profanasaurus Rex for a mine of fabulous swear words. Or you can invent a new world and make up swear words that aren't in real life (a bit of a cheat, that one but a handy get out for the fantasy writer).

Cheers

MTM

I was in a tool-hire shop a few years ago, and while I was waiting at the counter for them to fetch whatever it was I was hiring, an Irishman came in, put an angle-grinder on the counter, and informed the assistant, "the fucking fucker's fucked". I thought that was very creative: it conveyed all the required information about the nature of the problem in a pleasingly succinct manner.

[mr ploppy]

Originally Posted by HarryT

the fucking fucker's fucked.

Pinched for a future story.

[EileenG]

Originally Posted by HarryT

In a similar vein, I proofed one of my H. Rider Haggard books against a scanned PDF I downloaded from Google Books, which had every occurrence of the word "nigger" crossed out. I guess that some people feel the need to censor books.

I wrote something in an online forum about an old lady sniggering at me, and found it had been blanked out.

[EileenG]

Originally Posted by HarryT

I was in a tool-hire shop a few years ago, and while I was waiting at the counter for them to fetch whatever it was I was hiring, an Irishman came in, put an angle-grinder on the counter, and informed the assistant, "the fucking fucker's fucked". I thought that was very creative: it conveyed all the required information about the nature of the problem in a pleasingly succinct manner.

That's normal conversation where I'm from (Ireland).

[crich70]

Makes me think of a story about Max Perkins. He wrote down 3 words that were in one of his author's books that he needed to discuss with them (S**t, P**S, and F**K). I think it was Hemingway or Fitzgerald or someone like that and anyway someone else came in, saw the note and remarked that if Max needed to write himself a note to do those things then he needed help. The paper he'd written the 3 words on had a heading that read "Things to do today." lol.

[ScalyFreak]

I think I have the opposite opinion of most people in this thread.

Speaking from a reader's point of view, I like when there's real swearing. (Let me quickly add the disclaimer, when it's done right! )

It may be because I play a lot of video games, an industry that is not yet as widely accepted in the main stream as movies or music, and as a result, game developers self-police a lot more harshly than movie studios. The main reason for this is that it's extremely easy to get an M-rating on your game, meaning that it can only legitimately sell to someone over 17, and in an effort to reach as large a market as possible, everyone tries for a "T for teen". Mild examples are when two soldiers in a war zone in a sci-fi game is talking, and the phrase "save your sorry ass" has been to changed "save your sorry butt", to avoid an M-rating. The infamous f-word becomes "frick" or "frig", and the well-know synonym for fecal matter becomes "shoot", for the same reason. Mildly less offensive, sure, but it rings hollow. The whole dialogue feels off-key somehow.

It's annoying. It ruins the immersion, it ruins the mood. I love games, movies, and books, where characters really swear in situations where I know I would. It makes the characters more real to me when I hear them use real swear words when cussing..

There are of course ways to illustrate all of the above without being taste-less. The example earlier in the thread of describing "vile language" is one I see authors use all the time. Swearing is like any other tool when you write/tell a story. When used right, it can make a character seem more alive and real, a story more immersive, and tense situations more charged. When used poorly... meh. Just meh.

[M T McGuire]

Harry T, I used to work for a coach company and that was pretty much the chant when something went wrong.
ScalyFreak, I absolutely agree, pretend swearing is just phoney, I tend to think that either I should do it properly or not at all. No half arsed, half way cobblers.

Cheers

MTM

[VydorScope]

Originally Posted by M T McGuire

Harry T, I used to work for a coach company and that was pretty much the chant when something went wrong.
ScalyFreak, I absolutely agree, pretend swearing is just phoney, I tend to think that either I should do it properly or not at all. No half arsed, half way cobblers.

Cheers

MTM

Depends what you mean by "pretend" ? For example in if I was telling a story set in modern day US and the character needed to curse for some reason, I would expect to see one of the modern curses. I have a character in one of my books that is not set in modern day that takes her god's name in vain, makes no sense for her to say JC or whatever since its not our modern day, but she does the same with her god. So that is a "pretend" curse? I think using a "modern" curse in that case would be more pretend then my made up one.

I think that has been said in this thread already, but felt it needed repeating.

[ScalyFreak]

Originally Posted by VydorScope

Depends what you mean by "pretend"?

I mean this:

Originally Posted by ScalyFreak

Mild examples are when two soldiers in a war zone in a sci-fi game is talking, and the phrase "save your sorry ass" has been to changed "save your sorry butt", to avoid an M-rating. The infamous f-word becomes "frick" or "frig", and the well-know synonym for fecal matter becomes "shoot", for the same reason.

And I agree, it needs to fit the setting. Shakespeare's characters say "by Jove" because that was their equivalent of taking the Lord's name in vain in a very crude way. Conan swears by Erlik and Seth, since that matches the setting he's in, and so on... it's all about consistently following the context the character is in.

I'm just about to start playing a rouge character in an AD&D campaign, and I fully intend to let my character refer to Myrkul's private parts when she swears. Matter of fact, thinking up how the characters in the Forgotten Realms would cuss is one of the more entertaining aspects of preparing for the campaign.

[VydorScope]

Then I agree, I could not write a sailor that said "FUDGE!" when stubbed his toe. Now it could be fine to have a slightly odd character use his wife/mom/etc name as a curse...