Register Guidelines E-Books Today's Posts Search

Go Back   MobileRead Forums > E-Book General > General Discussions

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 09-07-2011, 12:33 PM   #31
screwballl
NewKindler
screwballl ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.screwballl ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.screwballl ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.screwballl ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.screwballl ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.screwballl ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.screwballl ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.screwballl ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.screwballl ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.screwballl ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.screwballl ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
screwballl's Avatar
 
Posts: 504
Karma: 1865773
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: NWFL
Device: Kindle3 Wifi
Modern fair use law as it pertains to ebooks means you can strip DRM for legally owned items (physical or digital) provided it stays within your possession. Current ebook DRM falls under the "prevention of theft", not "prevention of ownership"... versus music/movies fall under "prevention of ownership" since you are legally only allowed to use it in its original form, aka DVD, Bluray or legal streaming (aka netflix) video, not allowing you to make a backup or copy even if you own the physical media or pay for the viewing service.

It was originally the same way (Fair use) for music and movies until the music/movie mafia criminalized civil law.
screwballl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-07-2011, 12:39 PM   #32
Angst
Cannon Fodder
Angst ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Angst ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Angst ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Angst ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Angst ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Angst ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Angst ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Angst ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Angst ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Angst ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Angst ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Angst's Avatar
 
Posts: 2,878
Karma: 52253556
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Probably a library
Device: PRS-350, Kindle DX, Kindle Paperwhite
Quote:
Originally Posted by screwballl View Post
Modern fair use law as it pertains to ebooks means you can strip DRM for legally owned items (physical or digital) provided it stays within your possession. [snip]
So did I lose "possession" when when my hard disk crashed? Can I legally obtain the original content through other means?
Angst is offline   Reply With Quote
Advert
Old 09-07-2011, 12:45 PM   #33
screwballl
NewKindler
screwballl ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.screwballl ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.screwballl ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.screwballl ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.screwballl ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.screwballl ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.screwballl ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.screwballl ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.screwballl ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.screwballl ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.screwballl ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
screwballl's Avatar
 
Posts: 504
Karma: 1865773
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: NWFL
Device: Kindle3 Wifi
Ebooks still fall under the original fair use laws, meaning you can make backups, remove or transfer DRM and transfer to other reader formats provided it stays within your possession. The publishers haven't quite gone to the same lengths that the music/movie mafia has to prevent that (yet).

This is still a grey area of the law which has not been tested in the courts yet as it relates to "digital books", so we go by the latest law which is the Fair Use (quoted below).

Music and movies also have the same fair use laws, BUT they also have the DMCA which essentially states "...if the originally produced media contains no copy protection, then you have the right to make backups or copy to another medium provided it stays within your possession. If the original media DOES contain copy protection or DRM then you must purchase a new or different medium for a different device, or if your original is lost, stolen or leaves your possession for any reason." This is why pretty much ALL music and movies now have DRM or copy protection, except in rare cases where the owner or studio do not add it, to prevent people from copying it, even for personal backup or transfer to new device.

Quote:
17 U.S.C. § 107

Notwithstanding the provisions of sections 17 U.S.C. § 106 and 17 U.S.C. § 106A, the fair use of a copyrighted work, including such use by reproduction in copies or phonorecords or by any other means specified by that section, for purposes such as criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching (including multiple copies for classroom use), scholarship, or research, is not an infringement of copyright. In determining whether the use made of a work in any particular case is a fair use the factors to be considered shall include:

1. the purpose and character of the use, including whether such use is of a commercial nature or is for nonprofit educational purposes;
2. the nature of the copyrighted work;
3. the amount and substantiality of the portion used in relation to the copyrighted work as a whole; and
4. the effect of the use upon the potential market for or value of the copyrighted work.

The fact that a work is unpublished shall not itself bar a finding of fair use if such finding is made upon consideration of all the above factors.

Last edited by screwballl; 09-07-2011 at 12:52 PM.
screwballl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-07-2011, 01:30 PM   #34
ProfCrash
Tea Enthusiast
ProfCrash ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.ProfCrash ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.ProfCrash ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.ProfCrash ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.ProfCrash ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.ProfCrash ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.ProfCrash ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.ProfCrash ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.ProfCrash ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.ProfCrash ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.ProfCrash ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
ProfCrash's Avatar
 
Posts: 8,554
Karma: 75384937
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Somewhere in the USA
Device: Kindle1, Kindle DX Graphite, K3 3G, IPad 3, PW2
Quote:
Originally Posted by Angst View Post
So did I lose "possession" when when my hard disk crashed? Can I legally obtain the original content through other means?
The fact that you are referring to "other means" tells me that you already know the answer.
ProfCrash is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-07-2011, 02:02 PM   #35
screwballl
NewKindler
screwballl ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.screwballl ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.screwballl ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.screwballl ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.screwballl ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.screwballl ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.screwballl ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.screwballl ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.screwballl ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.screwballl ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.screwballl ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
screwballl's Avatar
 
Posts: 504
Karma: 1865773
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: NWFL
Device: Kindle3 Wifi
If you lose the original regardless if it is a real or digital version, it is lost and must be paid for again. It is only legal if you have previously made backups.
screwballl is offline   Reply With Quote
Advert
Old 09-07-2011, 03:33 PM   #36
crossi
Guru
crossi ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.crossi ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.crossi ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.crossi ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.crossi ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.crossi ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.crossi ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.crossi ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.crossi ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.crossi ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.crossi ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Posts: 997
Karma: 12000001
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Seattle Wahington U.S.
Device: kindle
Sue them for the money you lost since they have failed to provide the access to books you have paid for.
crossi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-07-2011, 03:43 PM   #37
Hellmark
Wizard
Hellmark ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Hellmark ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Hellmark ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Hellmark ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Hellmark ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Hellmark ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Hellmark ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Hellmark ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Hellmark ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Hellmark ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Hellmark ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Hellmark's Avatar
 
Posts: 2,592
Karma: 4290425
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Foristell, Missouri, USA
Device: Nokia N800, PRS-505, Nook STR Glowlight, Kindle 3, Kobo Libra 2
Quote:
Originally Posted by crossi View Post
Sue them for the money you lost since they have failed to provide the access to books you have paid for.
They have provided copies of what you have paid for. Legally, they do not have to provide subsequent access to them.
Hellmark is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-07-2011, 04:05 PM   #38
kennyc
The Dank Side of the Moon
kennyc ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kennyc ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kennyc ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kennyc ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kennyc ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kennyc ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kennyc ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kennyc ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kennyc ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kennyc ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kennyc ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
kennyc's Avatar
 
Posts: 35,901
Karma: 119230421
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Denver, CO
Device: Kindle2; Kindle Fire
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hellmark View Post
They have provided copies of what you have paid for. Legally, they do not have to provide subsequent access to them.
Agreed. It's not the publisher or sellers of a paper books responsibility to replace it for you if it is lost, destroyed or damaged.
kennyc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-07-2011, 04:59 PM   #39
Angst
Cannon Fodder
Angst ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Angst ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Angst ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Angst ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Angst ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Angst ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Angst ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Angst ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Angst ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Angst ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Angst ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Angst's Avatar
 
Posts: 2,878
Karma: 52253556
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Probably a library
Device: PRS-350, Kindle DX, Kindle Paperwhite
Quote:
Originally Posted by ProfCrash View Post
The fact that you are referring to "other means" tells me that you already know the answer.
Quote:
Originally Posted by screwballl View Post
If you lose the original regardless if it is a real or digital version, it is lost and must be paid for again. It is only legal if you have previously made backups.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hellmark View Post
They have provided copies of what you have paid for. Legally, they do not have to provide subsequent access to them.
Quote:
Originally Posted by kennyc View Post
Agreed. It's not the publisher or sellers of a paper books responsibility to replace it for you if it is lost, destroyed or damaged.
Damn! Looks like I'm going to have to wait for Fictionwise to sign agreements with the Agency six before I will be able to download my books again. This really sucks. Unless.......someone comes up with a brilliant argument refuting you guys.
Angst is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-07-2011, 05:03 PM   #40
kennyc
The Dank Side of the Moon
kennyc ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kennyc ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kennyc ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kennyc ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kennyc ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kennyc ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kennyc ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kennyc ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kennyc ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kennyc ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kennyc ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
kennyc's Avatar
 
Posts: 35,901
Karma: 119230421
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Denver, CO
Device: Kindle2; Kindle Fire
Quote:
Originally Posted by Angst View Post
Damn! Looks like I'm going to have to wait for Fictionwise to sign agreements with the Agency six before I will be able to download my books again. This really sucks. Unless.......someone comes up with a brilliant argument refuting you guys.
Let your conscious be your guide.
kennyc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-07-2011, 05:11 PM   #41
carpetmojo
Wizard
carpetmojo ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.carpetmojo ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.carpetmojo ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.carpetmojo ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.carpetmojo ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.carpetmojo ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.carpetmojo ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.carpetmojo ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.carpetmojo ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.carpetmojo ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.carpetmojo ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Posts: 3,117
Karma: 9269999
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: UK
Device: Sony- T3, PRS650, 350, T1/2/3, Paperwhite, Fire 8.9,Samsung Tab S 10.5
Just sue 'em for the hell of it....
carpetmojo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-07-2011, 05:46 PM   #42
Belle2Be
Peace, Love, and Books
Belle2Be ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Belle2Be ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Belle2Be ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Belle2Be ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Belle2Be ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Belle2Be ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Belle2Be ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Belle2Be ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Belle2Be ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Belle2Be ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Belle2Be ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Belle2Be's Avatar
 
Posts: 355
Karma: 1242738
Join Date: Sep 2010
Device: Kindle 3(3g), NookColor
I've read soooo many arguements stating how paper books and ebooks can't be compared, so I wouldn't start now. When I buy from Amazon or B&N, its with the assurance that if I lose or break my ereader, I can go back on and re-download those books to my new replacement device. I guess it doesn't work that way with Sony?
Belle2Be is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-07-2011, 05:52 PM   #43
cfrizz
Wizard
cfrizz ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.cfrizz ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.cfrizz ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.cfrizz ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.cfrizz ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.cfrizz ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.cfrizz ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.cfrizz ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.cfrizz ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.cfrizz ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.cfrizz ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
cfrizz's Avatar
 
Posts: 1,570
Karma: 36389706
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Quincy, MA
Device: Samsung 54A, Kobo Libra H2O, Samsung S6 Lite
Quote:
Originally Posted by pidgeon92 View Post
I tried this with Fictionwise when Random House pulled several titles I had purchased from Fictionwise. I appealed to Fictionwise, several times. I appealed to Random House. Neither would give me access to the ebooks I had paid for. They still appear in my Fictionwise Bookshelf on my account, but when I try to download them there is an error message.
I'm sorry but that is soooo wrong! This kind of crap is what pushes people into pirating.

Granted always download your purchases right away and make sure to back them up, but still this crap is beyond annoying.
cfrizz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-07-2011, 05:53 PM   #44
Hellmark
Wizard
Hellmark ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Hellmark ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Hellmark ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Hellmark ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Hellmark ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Hellmark ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Hellmark ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Hellmark ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Hellmark ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Hellmark ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Hellmark ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Hellmark's Avatar
 
Posts: 2,592
Karma: 4290425
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Foristell, Missouri, USA
Device: Nokia N800, PRS-505, Nook STR Glowlight, Kindle 3, Kobo Libra 2
Quote:
Originally Posted by Belle2Be View Post
I've read soooo many arguements stating how paper books and ebooks can't be compared, so I wouldn't start now. When I buy from Amazon or B&N, its with the assurance that if I lose or break my ereader, I can go back on and re-download those books to my new replacement device. I guess it doesn't work that way with Sony?
Sony does allow for subsequent downloads. Hell, when they switched from the BBeB LRF/LRX format to ePub, they recommended that people redownload the books they've bought so they could get an ePub version (partially due to some people complaining that LRF books looked different than ePub).
Hellmark is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-07-2011, 05:55 PM   #45
Hellmark
Wizard
Hellmark ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Hellmark ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Hellmark ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Hellmark ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Hellmark ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Hellmark ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Hellmark ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Hellmark ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Hellmark ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Hellmark ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Hellmark ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Hellmark's Avatar
 
Posts: 2,592
Karma: 4290425
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Foristell, Missouri, USA
Device: Nokia N800, PRS-505, Nook STR Glowlight, Kindle 3, Kobo Libra 2
Quote:
Originally Posted by cfrizz View Post
I'm sorry but that is soooo wrong! This kind of crap is what pushes people into pirating.

Granted always download your purchases right away and make sure to back them up, but still this crap is beyond annoying.
Blame the publisher on this one, Fictionwise isn't allowed to have a copy of the files any more, so if they can't have a file, then how can they keep a copy for you?
Hellmark is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Moral Stance PieOPah Lounge 13 08-19-2009 07:37 AM
Track# of Amazon Ebooks(pubers) avail ...but only Kindle nowhere else...moral dilemma Douglasco Amazon Kindle 4 02-26-2009 01:19 PM
Philosophy James, William: The Moral Philosopher and the Moral Life, v.1, 29 November 2008. Patricia Kindle Books 0 11-28-2008 11:18 PM
Philosophy James, William: The Moral Philosopher and the Moral Life, v.1, 29 November 2008. Patricia IMP Books 0 11-28-2008 11:16 PM
Philosophy James, William: The Moral Philosopher and the Moral Life, v.1, 29 November 2008. Patricia BBeB/LRF Books 0 11-28-2008 11:13 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 04:19 PM.


MobileRead.com is a privately owned, operated and funded community.