A moral dilemma

[screwballl]

Modern fair use law as it pertains to ebooks means you can strip DRM for legally owned items (physical or digital) provided it stays within your possession. Current ebook DRM falls under the "prevention of theft", not "prevention of ownership"... versus music/movies fall under "prevention of ownership" since you are legally only allowed to use it in its original form, aka DVD, Bluray or legal streaming (aka netflix) video, not allowing you to make a backup or copy even if you own the physical media or pay for the viewing service.

It was originally the same way (Fair use) for music and movies until the music/movie mafia criminalized civil law.

[Angst]

Originally Posted by screwballl

Modern fair use law as it pertains to ebooks means you can strip DRM for legally owned items (physical or digital) provided it stays within your possession. [snip]

So did I lose "possession" when when my hard disk crashed? Can I legally obtain the original content through other means?

[screwballl]

Ebooks still fall under the original fair use laws, meaning you can make backups, remove or transfer DRM and transfer to other reader formats provided it stays within your possession. The publishers haven't quite gone to the same lengths that the music/movie mafia has to prevent that (yet).

This is still a grey area of the law which has not been tested in the courts yet as it relates to "digital books", so we go by the latest law which is the Fair Use (quoted below).

Music and movies also have the same fair use laws, BUT they also have the DMCA which essentially states "...if the originally produced media contains no copy protection, then you have the right to make backups or copy to another medium provided it stays within your possession. If the original media DOES contain copy protection or DRM then you must purchase a new or different medium for a different device, or if your original is lost, stolen or leaves your possession for any reason." This is why pretty much ALL music and movies now have DRM or copy protection, except in rare cases where the owner or studio do not add it, to prevent people from copying it, even for personal backup or transfer to new device.

17 U.S.C. § 107

Notwithstanding the provisions of sections 17 U.S.C. § 106 and 17 U.S.C. § 106A, the fair use of a copyrighted work, including such use by reproduction in copies or phonorecords or by any other means specified by that section, for purposes such as criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching (including multiple copies for classroom use), scholarship, or research, is not an infringement of copyright. In determining whether the use made of a work in any particular case is a fair use the factors to be considered shall include:

1. the purpose and character of the use, including whether such use is of a commercial nature or is for nonprofit educational purposes;
2. the nature of the copyrighted work;
3. the amount and substantiality of the portion used in relation to the copyrighted work as a whole; and
4. the effect of the use upon the potential market for or value of the copyrighted work.

The fact that a work is unpublished shall not itself bar a finding of fair use if such finding is made upon consideration of all the above factors.

[ProfCrash]

Originally Posted by Angst

So did I lose "possession" when when my hard disk crashed? Can I legally obtain the original content through other means?

The fact that you are referring to "other means" tells me that you already know the answer.

[screwballl]

If you lose the original regardless if it is a real or digital version, it is lost and must be paid for again. It is only legal if you have previously made backups.

[crossi]

Sue them for the money you lost since they have failed to provide the access to books you have paid for.

[Hellmark]

Originally Posted by crossi

Sue them for the money you lost since they have failed to provide the access to books you have paid for.

They have provided copies of what you have paid for. Legally, they do not have to provide subsequent access to them.

[kennyc]

Originally Posted by Hellmark

They have provided copies of what you have paid for. Legally, they do not have to provide subsequent access to them.

Agreed. It's not the publisher or sellers of a paper books responsibility to replace it for you if it is lost, destroyed or damaged.

[Angst]

Originally Posted by ProfCrash

The fact that you are referring to "other means" tells me that you already know the answer.

Originally Posted by screwballl

If you lose the original regardless if it is a real or digital version, it is lost and must be paid for again. It is only legal if you have previously made backups.

Originally Posted by Hellmark

They have provided copies of what you have paid for. Legally, they do not have to provide subsequent access to them.

Originally Posted by kennyc

Agreed. It's not the publisher or sellers of a paper books responsibility to replace it for you if it is lost, destroyed or damaged.

Damn! Looks like I'm going to have to wait for Fictionwise to sign agreements with the Agency six before I will be able to download my books again. This really sucks. Unless.......someone comes up with a brilliant argument refuting you guys.

[kennyc]

Originally Posted by Angst

Damn! Looks like I'm going to have to wait for Fictionwise to sign agreements with the Agency six before I will be able to download my books again. This really sucks. Unless.......someone comes up with a brilliant argument refuting you guys.

Let your conscious be your guide.

[carpetmojo]

Just sue 'em for the hell of it....

[Belle2Be]

I've read soooo many arguements stating how paper books and ebooks can't be compared, so I wouldn't start now. When I buy from Amazon or B&N, its with the assurance that if I lose or break my ereader, I can go back on and re-download those books to my new replacement device. I guess it doesn't work that way with Sony?

[cfrizz]

Originally Posted by pidgeon92

I tried this with Fictionwise when Random House pulled several titles I had purchased from Fictionwise. I appealed to Fictionwise, several times. I appealed to Random House. Neither would give me access to the ebooks I had paid for. They still appear in my Fictionwise Bookshelf on my account, but when I try to download them there is an error message.

I'm sorry but that is soooo wrong! This kind of crap is what pushes people into pirating.

Granted always download your purchases right away and make sure to back them up, but still this crap is beyond annoying.

[Hellmark]

Originally Posted by Belle2Be

I've read soooo many arguements stating how paper books and ebooks can't be compared, so I wouldn't start now. When I buy from Amazon or B&N, its with the assurance that if I lose or break my ereader, I can go back on and re-download those books to my new replacement device. I guess it doesn't work that way with Sony?

Sony does allow for subsequent downloads. Hell, when they switched from the BBeB LRF/LRX format to ePub, they recommended that people redownload the books they've bought so they could get an ePub version (partially due to some people complaining that LRF books looked different than ePub).

[Hellmark]

Originally Posted by cfrizz

I'm sorry but that is soooo wrong! This kind of crap is what pushes people into pirating.

Granted always download your purchases right away and make sure to back them up, but still this crap is beyond annoying.

Blame the publisher on this one, Fictionwise isn't allowed to have a copy of the files any more, so if they can't have a file, then how can they keep a copy for you?