The End Didn't Come

[Andrew H.]

Originally Posted by replica145

Regardless of how accurate it is, it doesn't change the basics. There is no printing, shipping, distributing. They charge more for the product. It's not a far stretch to know their profits go way up from such methods. They do less work for more money.

So?

For decades publishers charged $20 more for a hardback than a paperback, despite the fact that the hardback only cost $2 more to produce. Publishing has never based on a cost-plus-10% model, and I don't think that will happen anytime soon.

If an author is charging more for an e-book than you want to pay, don't buy it. It's as simple as that...and if too many people won't pay the price, it will change. Quasi-Aristotelian ideas of a "just price" have no application to consumer goods in a modern economy.

[elcreative]

Originally Posted by replica145

Regardless of how accurate it is, it doesn't change the basics. There is no printing, shipping, distributing. They charge more for the product. It's not a far stretch to know their profits go way up from such methods. They do less work for more money.

You'd probably better check out "their" corporate filings for all these vastly greater profits... Oh wait, they don't seem to be there Everybody can't have it both ways... publishers can't be making vastly increased profits and failing to do any business at the same time... whoops, sorry, was trying to be logical there rather than making my mind up first and then bending (or ignoring) facts to fit...

[Greg Anos]

Originally Posted by elcreative

You'd probably better check out "their" corporate filings for all these vastly greater profits... Oh wait, they don't seem to be there Everybody can't have it both ways... publishers can't be making vastly increased profits and failing to do any business at the same time... whoops, sorry, was trying to be logical there rather than making my mind up first and then bending (or ignoring) facts to fit...

Do they break out their e-book number versus paper numbers? How are they amortizing their e-book up-front costs?

With out those numbers nobody really knows...

[elcreative]

Originally Posted by Ralph Sir Edward

Do they break out their e-book number versus paper numbers? How are they amortizing their e-book up-front costs?

With out those numbers nobody really knows...

True for detailed comparisons but for the basics... are their profits rising or sinking... simple point, if making "massive" ebook profits then should show in basic profit/loss... if anyone's really interested then they can go look it up... me, I could care less, if I want a book now then I get it, if I will read eventually then I can wait, again simple, I'm a reader and I'll read what I want as I think that reading is one of the cheapest and finest sources of entertainment... and I don't have a problem with reimbursing those who provide my reading material plus if you don't like the price then you can always stay on the moral high horse and refuse to buy...

[OneandonlyDoc]

Originally Posted by Andrew H.

If an author is charging more for an e-book than you want to pay, don't buy it. It's as simple as that...and if too many people won't pay the price, it will change. Quasi-Aristotelian ideas of a "just price" have no application to consumer goods in a modern economy.

Tread lightly. The only authors that really get to set their prices are the indie/self-pub folks, not anyone whose books are being produced by the Big Six. In the latter case, it's the publisher setting the price, not the author.

I know it's semantics, but they're important semantics in this case.

[bgalbrecht]

Originally Posted by HarryT

But price-fixing doesn't necessarily imply unfair pricing. I buy a lot of eBooks - probably an average of over 10 a month, and generally pay £4-£5 at Amazon. Those are almost all agency publishers, but if the printed book has a list price of £7.99 (pretty much the standard UK paperback price these days) I'm happy to pay £4-5 for the eBook.

Unfortunately, if the book is a mass-market paperback, the agency 6 usually price the ebook at parity with the list cost of the MMPB, so it works out to be more than the discounted MMPB I can get at my local bookseller.

I have so many books in my TBR pile (physically and metaphorically) that I refuse to pay the new book premium for ebooks. I can and do wait, but apparently the majority of ebook buyers don't.

[OtterBooks]

Originally Posted by bgalbrecht

Unfortunately, if the book is a mass-market paperback, the agency 6 usually price the ebook at parity with the list cost of the MMPB, so it works out to be more than the discounted MMPB I can get at my local bookseller.

You have a local discount bookseller? Nice. Haven't seen any of those in a while.

[leebase]

Ookay....I've been busy at work. Nice discussion. Most people seem to be missing my point.

I am not arguing that ebook prices are too high or too low. I'm not arguing whether Agency Pricing equal "price fixing" (as in the illegal type).

It is simply an observation that nobody here seems to actually be hampered in their reading despite the Agency price hikes. There seems to be PLENTY of other options. Plenty of authors selling ebooks for very cheap. Folks also demonstrating that they can just read books they already own....or use the library more....or buy used books.

Not one person has said that because of the rise in the price of ebooks, they can no longer afford to buy food or medication.

That everyone who disagrees with the Agency pricing is both continuing to read ebooks and NOT giving their business to the Agency publishers -- they PROVE there is competition. Those publisher have NOT been able to raise the price of ebooks for those on this forum. They have simply removed those publishers books from consideration.

Now, either the publishers will fail -- or they will continue on with folks who are willing to pay the price. Or they will change their prices. But either way, the notion that competition has been reduced is observed to be wrong.

Lee

[Fayth]

I've never been one to dispute the prices of any digital media. I find it perfectly acceptable to pay the same price for physical as I do for digital. Sure, the cost is lower on their end, but from my point of view, I've always been paying for the content anyway, not the package it comes in.Not to mention that the convenience of digital media is valuable in its own right, and I have no problem paying for it.

[bwaldron]

Fair enough; however, there is no DRM on physical books and one truly owns them, rather than paying for a limited license to the content.

Originally Posted by Fayth

I've never been one to dispute the prices of any digital media. I find it perfectly acceptable to pay the same price for physical as I do for digital. Sure, the cost is lower on their end, but from my point of view, I've always been paying for the content anyway, not the package it comes in.Not to mention that the convenience of digital media is valuable in its own right, and I have no problem paying for it.

[stonetools]

It is simply an observation that nobody here seems to actually be hampered in their reading despite the Agency price hikes. There seems to be PLENTY of other options. Plenty of authors selling ebooks for very cheap. Folks also demonstrating that they can just read books they already own....or use the library more....or buy used books.

People like to bitch about prices, they really do. At any point, there are three threads going on the site complaining about agency pricing, each with self-appointed experts proclaiming what the "right price" should be for e-books and how publishers are pursuing the "wrong strategy". These folks have never worked a day in the book industry and have never run their own business , but suddenly, they are experts on marketing, pricing, corporate finance, and other stuff that people go to business school to study.

What's interesting is that besides all this talk about "unconscionable" agency pricing, there is another forum where thousands of books are on offer for free or for cheap, often by those same publishers who are excoriated for "agency price fixing". Heck, on this very forum there is a thread dedicated to those who complain of the "addiction" of buying too many e-books. Of course, this makes a mockery of the idea that e-book prices are too high and that those too high prices are stifling demand. Indeed, since the bestseller lists are filled with those "overpriced" agency books, we can conclude that these "experts" are dead wrong about the demand-killing effect of agency pricing.

Oh well, think of this forum as a place where people can "blow off steam" about prices. In that way, it serves an important social function.

[Andrew H.]

Originally Posted by bwaldron

Fair enough; however, there is no DRM on physical books and one truly owns them, rather than paying for a limited license to the content.

There's no such thing as "true ownership." Ownership is a collection of rights, and while owners of physical books may have more rights than owners of e-books, there are limits on those rights, too. (They can't, for example, make and sell a photocopy of their physical book, or record and sell an audiobook of the physical book).

[elcreative]

Originally Posted by bwaldron

Fair enough; however, there is no DRM on physical books and one truly owns them, rather than paying for a limited license to the content.

It may not be DRM but sure has RM... called copyright... you may own the physical item but have no more rights concerning copying the content than a DRM'd eBook... all you actually own is the material the book is printed on and wrapped in... no different to DVDs where you own the DVD but not the material on the DVD. The only real difference is that you can easily transfer the medium (containing the content) to another person but this still requires that you don't retain copies...

[Greg Anos]

Originally Posted by stonetools

People like to bitch about prices, they really do. At any point, there are three threads going on the site complaining about agency pricing, each with self-appointed experts proclaiming what the "right price" should be for e-books and how publishers are pursuing the "wrong strategy". These folks have never worked a day in the book industry and have never run their own business , but suddenly, they are experts on marketing, pricing, corporate finance, and other stuff that people go to business school to study.

What's interesting is that besides all this talk about "unconscionable" agency pricing, there is another forum where thousands of books are on offer for free or for cheap, often by those same publishers who are excoriated for "agency price fixing". Heck, on this very forum there is a thread dedicated to those who complain of the "addiction" of buying too many e-books. Of course, this makes a mockery of the idea that e-book prices are too high and that those too high prices are stifling demand. Indeed, since the bestseller lists are filled with those "overpriced" agency books, we can conclude that these "experts" are dead wrong about the demand-killing effect of agency pricing.

Oh well, think of this forum as a place where people can "blow off steam" about prices. In that way, it serves an important social function.

Actually, there isn't a "book market" either e or p. There is a myriad of smaller niche markets, all lumped together.

You're seeing different people in different niches making niche relevant comments.

For example, I don't read "mainstream" fiction or celebrity/political/topical nonfiction. These are the mainstays of the big 6 publishers. Shrug - I'm not their customer, I could care less what they charge. Same for Romances, it doesn't matter if they charge .99 cents or $15, I'm not interested. But other people are, and make comments.

I get frustrated when publishers of books I'd like to have (out of print S/F- Fantasy) aren't made available because there isn't a market for 50 year old books for $15. And the attitude of "if they won't sell 100,000 copies, why bother" among the controllers of the copyrights.

There is a proven market for those sort of books, but only at $5-$6 dollars. (see Baen).

One publisher of the big 6 seems to have gotten it (Gollancz). Their prices are higher that I feel will sell the best ($8.66 and $5.33, and I don't know how they choose which price), and I can't buy 2/3 of the titles I want because of geo-restrictions, but I think they'll make a nice profit on the deal (if the e-books are well proofed).

But I won't pay over $10 for any e-book. And if I can't buy what I want, that's a sale that some company is just giving up...

[Blue Tyson]

Originally Posted by Ralph Sir Edward

Actually, there isn't a "book market" either e or p. There is a myriad of smaller niche markets, all lumped together.

You're seeing different people in different niches making niche relevant comments.

For example, I don't read "mainstream" fiction or celebrity/political/topical nonfiction. These are the mainstays of the big 6 publishers. Shrug - I'm not their customer, I could care less what they charge. Same for Romances, it doesn't matter if they charge .99 cents or $15, I'm not interested. But other people are, and make comments.

I get frustrated when publishers of books I'd like to have (out of print S/F- Fantasy) aren't made available because there isn't a market for 50 year old books for $15. And the attitude of "if they won't sell 100,000 copies, why bother" among the controllers of the copyrights.

There is a proven market for those sort of books, but only at $5-$6 dollars. (see Baen).

One publisher of the big 6 seems to have gotten it (Gollancz). Their prices are higher that I feel will sell the best ($8.66 and $5.33, and I don't know how they choose which price), and I can't buy 2/3 of the titles I want because of geo-restrictions, but I think they'll make a nice profit on the deal (if the e-books are well proofed).

But I won't pay over $10 for any e-book. And if I can't buy what I want, that's a sale that some company is just giving up...

Some of the Gollancz books of course are available at Baen too, Poul Anderson, Cordwainer Smith for example - even some volumes with multiple books for less than the price they are selling one for. So it pays to check.