ePub - Where do you buy your e-books?

[anamardoll]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

Yes, Mark has done a good job. But it's time to move forward. And moving forward is allowing authors to upload an already created eBook. Sure, it means the author's learning how to create ePub, but once they dom it will be better for them and better for the readers. We could have things like drop caps, embedded fonts, neat code, and whatever else can't be done via Word.

This. Not to mention many authors employ professional formatters to get the ePub perfect. I would not want to spend my money on a format I was happy with and then submit to a company that expects me to be happy with whatever their conversion software churns out. Conversion is great, but having the ability to hand-tweak the output is crucial. Taking that ability away...no.

[JSWolf]

Questions for anamardoll and DreamWritier...

Have you read the style guide for SW? Do you think it's easier to sort out a Word document to fit the style guide them it is to make a clean HTML/CSS file? Do you think it's easier to learn to use Word with the style guide then it is to learn to make HTML/CSS?

If I was to take a Word document, save it as a text file, convert that to HTML/CSS add in the code needed for the formatting , used Sigil or Calibre to convert that to ePub, would that be easier then using the style guide?

I know the results would be nicer the hand crafted way. But that's not the issue. The issue is, if it's a learning curve to make a Word document meat the style guide's requirements, then would be just as easy/hard to learn HTML/CSS?

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by anamardoll

This. Not to mention many authors employ professional formatters to get the ePub perfect. I would not want to spend my money on a format I was happy with and then submit to a company that expects me to be happy with whatever their conversion software churns out. Conversion is great, but having the ability to hand-tweak the output is crucial. Taking that ability away...no.

I agree completely. There is no reason to limit the author to posting something that he/she has to live with. If they author wants to have it done before hand to make sure it's done right, then that should be an option. I don't see how this cannot easily be implemented. If SW is validating the meatground ePub and reporting errors, then it's just a matter of bypassing the meatgrinding process and moving onto the validation process with an already created ePub.

[anamardoll]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

Questions for anamardoll and DreamWritier...

Have you read the style guide for SW? Do you think it's easier to sort out a Word document to fit the style guide them it is to make a clean HTML/CSS file? Do you think it's easier to learn to use Word with the style guide then it is to learn to make HTML/CSS?

If I was to take a Word document, save it as a text file, convert that to HTML/CSS add in the code needed for the formatting , used Sigil or Calibre to convert that to ePub, would that be easier then using the style guide?

I know the results would be nicer the hand crafted way. But that's not the issue. The issue is, if it's a learning curve to make a Word document meat the style guide's requirements, then would be just as easy/hard to learn HTML/CSS?

I haven't read the style guide, I'll admit upfront, so this may be completely out of my butt.

However. I've spent the last several weeks (a) converting PDF scans into Word documents via FineReader (not my choice of output formats, but that's what you get with FineReader) and converting those Word documents into ePubs for my reader and (b) writing a book of my own. So I do have some experience with moving Word into ePub and creating ePubs directly.

I've not worked with Meatgrinder -- when I have to quick convert a Word document into ePub, I use 2epub.com. They do a great job with what's available, but the output is always incredibly messy because of all the artifacts in Word. One conversion I did the other day resulted in over 100 CSS classes, despite the book having basically two kinds of formatting -- regular text and headings. Yuck.

So my step after the initial Word-to-Epub conversion is always to do a Calibre epub-to-epub conversion to clobber the redundant classes, and that will usually get me down to 15-30 "calibre" classes, when alls I really want in most cases is a freaking <p> tag.

So the THIRD step is to boot Sigil and start doing find-and-replace by hand to chop the <p class="craptastic"> into just plain <p> or <p class="seriouslyIonlyneedoneclasshere"> in special cases. And look for span tags that aren't needed. And fix the italics so they work right. And look for nbsp; scattered where they don't need to be. And clean the CSS up to be the bare minimum of what is needed instead of a bunch of junk.

All this to get from PDF to ePub "properly". That was (a).

For (b), writing my own book directly, I started in Word because that's what I was used to. When I'd finish a chapter, I'd copy the plain text over to Sigil, and then go back through and place the italics in. This is prone to error, but MUCH easier than grinding Word through a converter.

By Chapter 7, I was so comfortable with Sigil that I'm starting to write in Sigil directly. I do copy-paste back to Word for a sanity check at the end of a chapter (for instance, to use the spell-checker), but it's amusing to me that I've gone from "write in Word, paste to Sigil" to "write in Sigil, paste to Word".

One of the things that you see in a conversion is chapter splits where you might not want them. I had two headings in Word -- a title and subtitle -- and the conversion software helpfully broke that into two chapters. That's one of many things you have to tweak post conversion.

Don't even get me started on tables of contents.

MAYBE Meatgrinder is the smartest-bestest-easiest thing since sliced bread, but if the style guide is a whole book, I seriously doubt it. I write user manuals and conversion tools for a living; any conversion tool that requires beating the user with a giant manual is not a good situation for anyone involved. I won't say it's not sometimes necessary, but in this case, I can't see why a one-format-submission-only, no-tweaks business model would be necessary.

Even with the style guide, I would not trust my book with a converter. I realize that makes me sound like a narcissist with a Magic Special Snowflake book, but I just wouldn't because then I'd feel ashamed every time JSWolf pointed out what crappy formatting my Smashword book had.

EDIT:

Originally Posted by JSWolf

I know the results would be nicer the hand crafted way. But that's not the issue. The issue is, if it's a learning curve to make a Word document meat the style guide's requirements, then would be just as easy/hard to learn HTML/CSS?

I didn't answer this directly, sorry. If you're using Sigil to write your book, you don't NEED to learn CSS/HTML. You need to know maybe three tags (<h1>, <p>, and <i>) and you can get that (and a good CSS) from a book in your Calibre library. That's how I taught myself -- took me about an hour to get past the HTML/CSS stuff and start writing. I don't speak HTML/CSS.

So, yeah, 1 hour to learn Sigil ONCE versus -- according to the blog Elfwreck linked to -- 2 readings of a book, and 4+ hours to do Smashwords. And 3+ hours for each book after that. No thank you.

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by anamardoll

I haven't read the style guide, I'll admit upfront, so this may be completely out of my butt.

So it's only really taken you several weeks to go from using Word to know what to do with Sigil and making ePub the way you want. That's actually pretty good. So if the style guide is complicated enough, then it should be just as easy (or maybe easier) to make ePub without the meatgrinder.

What I was trying to figure out is is it worth it to figure out the style guide or figure out how to make ePub. You learn the style guide, you're stuck with SW. You learn ePub, you're a lot more open to what you can do.

[anamardoll]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

So it's only really taken you several weeks to go from using Word to know what to do with Sigil and making ePub the way you want. That's actually pretty good. So if the style guide is complicated enough, then it should be just as easy (or maybe easier) to make ePub without the meatgrinder.

What I was trying to figure out is is it worth it to figure out the style guide or figure out how to make ePub. You learn the style guide, you're stuck with SW. You learn ePub, you're a lot more open to what you can do.

Well, no, it didn't take me several weeks to go from Word to Sigil. It took me an hour to go from writing in Word to writing in Sigil.

It took me several weeks to realize that Word was more trouble than it was worth.

And none of this changes the fact that I doubt the OMG BOOK style guide guarantees a perfect ePub in the same way that hand-tweaking it can.

[DreamWriter]

I haven't read the Smashwords Style Guide cover to cover yet. It will be a lot of work to get the MS Word file formatted for Smashwords, I can tell you that! I'm probably going to have to strip all the formatting and re-do everything (italics, paragraphs, etc.). I don't have a Table of Contents in the Word file, as I did that all by hand in the HTML (and .ncx) for the Kindle version. So I'll have to look into that. I may also need to convert the book's graphics from .jpg to .png, which isn't a big deal, but I do wonder if the quality is going to be as good as I see on the Kindle.

I already have a (mostly) clean HTML file that I created because I used that to create the .prc that I submitted to Amazon for the Kindle version of the book. The code will need to be tweaked for the ePub because I had to do some "special" things for the Kindle version (to work around quirks in Amazon's "Look Inside" and to give readers more text to sample).

I've never made an ePub, so there will be a learning curve for me. But I've taught myself HTML and CSS, I can make .mobi and .prc files, and I know about .opf and .ncx files, so I know I can learn ePub.

I would much rather submit an ePub file. As I've said before, formatting matters very much to me. I'd like to have dropcaps, for example. I don't like the thought of submitting an MS Word file for automatic conversion into the various e-book formats, but Smashwords may be the only free choice to get the book into Apple, Sony, and Kobo. I will probably submit a DRM-free ePub directly to Barnes and Noble's PubIt, but they only sell to people in the U.S., so to reach ePub readers outside the U.S., Smashwords may be the only choice.

[anamardoll]

Kobo does, I believe, allow you to work with them directly:

http://www.kobobooks.com/companyinfo...ublishers.html

Sony also affiliates with something called Author Solutions:

http://ebookstore.sony.com/publisher...ubPortal_Lft_2

Also, if Konrath's books are on Smashwords, his formatter must know how to do the Word format correctly (if you'd rather pay someone to do the wrestling with Word):

http://www.52novels.com/

[DreamWriter]

Thanks, Ana. I haven't contacted Kobo yet, but unless things have changed recently, a small (or self-) publisher has to submit through a digital aggregator (middleman). With Kobo, that's either Smashwords or Author Solutions. It's my understanding that Kobo doesn't presently allow direct upload, like Amazon and Barnes and Noble.

I looked around at Author Solutions' website earlier this morning, and it's unclear (at first glance, anyway) whether their e-book services are free.

I can do the Word formatting for Smashwords myself. It doesn't look too difficult, just a bit time-consuming. I'm sure I'll be able to get the Word file to qualify for their Premium Catalog.

I'm going to have to put this aside for a while because I have some other things I need to work on, but at some point I'll look into the distribution options further.

[Elfwreck]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

Please post the full link. I don't click on hidden URL redirection links. Thanks.

If you don't care what the detailed explanation is, you don't need to click on the link.

And there's no way of knowing which links are not "redirection links"--any URL can be redirected. If you can't trust that a bit.ly link in the middle of a conversation with substantial additional content goes somewhere that you might be interested in reading... don't click. There's certainly no shortage of content here.

Most of us trust that we can tell the difference between a spam/troll link trying to hide its final destination, and a tweetable link that keeps the character-count low.

[TheSFReader]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

Please post the full link. I don't click on hidden URL redirection links. Thanks.

Sorry : Here is the link :

http://readingandraytracing.blogspot...-dont-you.html

[jehane]

DreamWriter, I have bought from Kobo, Smashwords and Baen, and a couple of small publisher sites. I don't buy from Amazon as they don't sell epub and I don't buy from B&N as they don't sell outside of the USA. I've never been able to get the Sony bookstore software to work for me, but that may also be related to being outside the USA (and admittedly I didn't try all that hard). I've bought from Borders Australia and Angus & Robertson (Pearson bought their online store so that aspect is still trading) and check out the catalogues at Dymocks in the vain hope of finding something reasonably priced.

[DreamWriter]

Thanks for the information, jehane.

You've all been so helpful!