Kansas State Librarian Argues Consortium Owns Content from OverDrive

[MrsJoseph]

Originally Posted by Sil_liS

Actually I saying that if they consider that a person applying for this position should be payed this kind of money, they shouldn't be surprised that OD asks for more than 10k.

And the part about the jobs? I'm sure that OD employs people as well, and needs to employ more as the number of users increases, but you don't seem concerned about them.

Do you really feel that because the library system is willing to hire an employee they should pay $75k for outside admin fees??? You can’t imagine that those two are synonymous. I refuse to believe that. Most companies that outsource do it because it cheaper not more expensive.

Besides, the librarian isn’t complaining about paying more than $10k, she’s complaining that OD is requesting a more than 690% admin fee increase within the next 3 years.

Why should I be concerned about OD? Because they are finally getting some competition? Last time I checked their budget wasn't getting cut and they were doing fine. IIRC it is the public library system that's under fire, you know the 26% budget cut.

[tubemonkey]

Originally Posted by Hamlet53

Seriously in the end communities deserve what they are willing to pay for, be it libraries, schools, roads, etc.

Maybe; but that's a topic for another thread.

[MrsJoseph]

Originally Posted by tubemonkey

Maybe; but that's a topic for another thread.

True. Wouldn't that fall under "Politics?"

[Sil_liS]

Originally Posted by MrsJoseph

Most companies that outsource do it because it cheaper not more expensive.

It is cheaper, for the year 2012 they proposed 25k. Also, the cost of employing somebody is greater than just the salary.

Originally Posted by MrsJoseph

Besides, the librarian isn’t complaining about paying more than $10k, she’s complaining that OD is requesting a more than 690% admin fee increase within the next 3 years.

Yes, 3 years from now, it would be 7 times more than in 2006. Considering that without all the eager kindle owners, they currently have more 10 times the usage compared to 2006, what do you expect?

Originally Posted by MrsJoseph

IIRC it is the public library system that's under fire, you know the 26% budget cut.

Yes, the budget cut that is only mentioned in this story, but nowhere else on the internet. On the other hand, according to this, it's supposed to be less than 10%.

[tubemonkey]

Originally Posted by MrsJoseph

True. Wouldn't that fall under "Politics?"

Definitely, considering how heated my thread on whether libraries should charge for ebooks got.

[ATimson]

Originally Posted by Sil_liS

Yes, 3 years from now, it would be 7 times more than in 2006. Considering that without all the eager kindle owners, they currently have more 10 times the usage compared to 2006, what do you expect?

I expect that more users doesn't increase OD's costs significantly, or they would have contracts with per-user licensing instead of a flat fee.

[Harmon]

Originally Posted by abookreader

I find it really interesting that Overdrive has had that clause in their contracts about the portability of content for all this time, but apparently no guideline or procedure for exercising it. And now that they actually have a viable competitor in 3M, they're trying to remove it.

It will be really interesting to see if the major Publishers who allow digital lending will be on board with this. I know I've heard concern from our librarians here about increasing investment in digital content (Overdrive) with no protection against unreasonable fee increasing and weak protection in regards to permanency of access.

I can't imagine that any library would sign a contract with a content administrator that did not include a content portability clause. Anything else would lock the library into a permanent contract, on pain of losing all the content that the library, presumably, has paid for.

As for publishers, I suppose I can imagine that a publisher might say that access to its ebooks must come through some specific content administrator, but at that point, I can't imagine a library buying that content.

One of the interesting things about our move from the analog world to the digital world is that one-time lump sum payments are being changed into payment streams.

In the short run, payment streams appear to me to be cheaper. But in the long run - which is what books are all about - payment streams are very costly so long as the recipient of the payment stream can lock the consumer into its ecosystem. That's what the phone companies have managed to do to us.

Now comes Overdrive, with the same objective. If libraries don't fight this tooth & nail, they will not be able to afford to lend ebooks.

[Sil_liS]

Originally Posted by ATimson

I expect that more users doesn't increase OD's costs significantly, or they would have contracts with per-user licensing instead of a flat fee.

The $10,800 annual fee comes from $900 per month, according to the contract. I don't know how the $25,000 fee for 2012 was supposed to be calculated, but the number isn't one that can be divided by 12, so it's probably calculated differently, possibly in a different way than a flat fee.

We also have:

Beyond the ten-fold increase in usage and flat pricing that OverDrive's Stasiewski pointed out, he also said the centralized nature of Kansas's operation presented challenges, such as the need to integrate with 25 different ILS systems.

I think that the costs were significantly underestimated back in 2006.

[SameOldStory]

It would be great if all the lawyers commenting would say whether or not they are commenting in a general way, of if they know the fine details. I know it would help me to understand the situation better.

At any rate, it can be fun to speculate.

To me this case has more to do with the ownership of a product. I always (and I have no clue as to why) thought that they (the libraries) bought the books with the stipulation that they lend out only one licensed copy at a time.

So the question that pops into my mind is, Is OverDrive actually buying the ebooks and simply managing the distribution for the libraries? Simple. Who has the receipts. But maybe I'm the one being simple.

The publishers want to restrict the number of times that a library can lend out an ebook. What does that do to OverDrive? Managing millions (tens of millions?) of decreasing ebook life spans for hundreds of thousands libraries could make it prohibitively expensive for all concerned.

Did the libraries pay $X for each ebook. That part should be simple (even if there are a lot of restrictions as to how they can use the ebooks). Again, who has the receipts?

Originally Posted by Sil_liS

If you think about the total, it looks insane, but it comes down to $227 for each library for one year. The huge increase that they are complaining about is from the fact that they are paying $32 for each library for this year.

I have to agree, in part. The libraries got a bargain with only $32 per branch. But that's just my WAG.

Originally Posted by Sil_liS

Title: Automation and Technology Coordinator
Salary: $42,000 – $48,000


Compare that to the current administration fee to OD of $10,800 for 2011, and the one that was considered unacceptable for 2012 of $25,000.

This is Kansas. That salary might be of interest people in South Dakota too. But not many other places. And remember, this is probably the top IT position!

Originally Posted by Sil_liS

...
they currently have more (than) 10 times the usage compared to 2006, what do you expect?

Interesting.

Just how big was the ebook/library traffic in 2006? In Kansas no less!

I have a population listing of 2,764,000 for the whole state of Kansas in 2006

Any guesses as to what percentage of the population was reading ebooks back then?


Lets take a totally preposterous guess- 1/2 of 1% in 2006.

2006 Population of the state of Kansas = 2,764,000
One half of one percent of the population reading ebooks = 13,820
A 10% increase in usage = 1,382 more people ereading.

NO, NO, NO! That's way to small! lets try 1% of the Kansas population in 2006.

2006 Population of the state of Kansas = 2,764,000
One percent of the population reading ebooks = 27,640
A 10% increase in usage = 2,764 more people ereading.

And remember - I'm making the assumption that all those people are getting their ebooks from the library!


Well it doesn’t matter if the 10% increase was 1,382 or 2,764 more people ereading. That's a lot of people. For Kansas.

Now how much of an increase was OverDrive looking for?

Oh yeah;
"OD is requesting a more than 690% admin fee increase within the next 3 years."

I wonder if I can ask my boss for a 90% pay raise, never mind a 690% increase.

[SameOldStory]

One other consideration.

If that increase was for an entire state who's population is probably smaller than the membership of the New York City Library system ...

[Kali Yuga]

Originally Posted by MrsJoseph

I think it is insane that OD wants $75,000 to "administrate" for the library system.

That's because clearly you have no concept of what the term means in this specific context.

Basically, it sounds like the cost of everything except content. Bandwidth, database management, customer service, legal fees and so forth.

$75k to manage and distribute library ebooks for the entire state of Kansas really is not that big a cost. It's only big compared to the ridiculously sweet deal Kansas had for the past 5 years.

[Kali Yuga]

Originally Posted by SameOldStory

So the question that pops into my mind is, Is OverDrive actually buying the ebooks and simply managing the distribution for the libraries?

They are now, since the licenses can expire and apparently can't be transferred to another service.

It's impossible to tell what the old contract stipulated without seeing it.


Your math is completely off, by the way.

The claim isn't that usage increased 10% since 2006. When you increase usage by 10 times, that's a 1000% increase.

So if there were 27,000 people checking out ebooks from Kansas libraries in 2006, there are currently 270,000 people checking out ebooks.

Seriously, the Overdrive admin costs are a pittance. The only reason why the librarians are freaking out over the cost component is, again, because they had a flat fee that hasn't changed since 2006. I really cannot view their complaints over the cost component as having much merit.

[SameOldStory]

Thanks Kali, math for a dyslexic is torture. It can't be improved with practice, so I pretty much avoid it. Unlike spell check there is no good solution.

[Fbone]

Kansas State Library's Overdrive collection only has 2452 titles. Currently 700 of them are available. I believe it is safe to say they had considerably less than 270,000 ebooks borrowed last year.

[tubemonkey]

Originally Posted by Fbone

Kansas State Library's Overdrive collection only has 2452 titles. Currently 700 of them are available. I believe it is safe to say they had considerably less than 270,000 ebooks borrowed last year.

I wonder what libraries with over 20,000 ebooks have to pay?