Reader overly delicate?

[NatCh]

Originally Posted by macastronomer

Sorry to go on, but I only want to fill in some details and stress my sincerity about this issue.

Not at all! The follow up info is very valuable -- it's one thing to know a problem exists, but a much better thing to know what came of it.

You mentioned assembly error, and that's certainly an excellent candidate. Another might be (as I think was suggested earlier) some sort of flaw in the actual material that couldn't be seen until it gave way.

Whatever the deal was, I'm glad they're getting it worked out for you.

[yvanleterrible]

Glass with built in stresses usually breaks quickly. If one has had a reader for a certain time the risks of damages occuring to the screen lessen.

Hey, mine fell on my face while I was reading flat on my backand it survived!!?!! That's a tough baby!

[DrMoze]

Originally Posted by yvanleterrible

Glass with built in stresses usually breaks quickly. If one has had a reader for a certain time the risks of damages occuring to the screen lessen.

Glass? You think the e-ink display is made of glass??? It's not. And therefore it really is not so fragile.

So, there are no 'internal stresses' or 'microcrack' defects that would cause it to spontaneously 'shatter.' These screens won't crack unless they are exposed to a significant force. And Sony knows this. If your screen cracks, it is not a manufacturing defect but abuse. The warranty covers manufacturing defects, like faulty connectors, glitchy switches, etc. Not accidental damage caused by a user.

[yvanleterrible]

Originally Posted by DrMoze

Glass? You think the e-ink display is made of glass??? It's not. And therefore it really is not so fragile.

So, there are no 'internal stresses' or 'microcrack' defects that would cause it to spontaneously 'shatter.' These screens won't crack unless they are exposed to a significant force. And Sony knows this. If your screen cracks, it is not a manufacturing defect but abuse. The warranty covers manufacturing defects, like faulty connectors, glitchy switches, etc. Not accidental damage caused by a user.

Well! You got me there, I was sure it was plastic covered glass. You know there is a liquid in there and that all plastics are permeable. I'm still not convinced but if you say so I'll believe you.
If so then, there can't be stresses in plastics. They would come from crooked bezels or protruding underlaying components.

[NatCh]

Originally Posted by DrMoze

Glass? You think the e-ink display is made of glass??? It's not.

The front of the panel is not on the Sony (though the iLiad's is), but the back surface may well be, and we don't really know that the front isn't just plastic laminated glass. Lots of things are made of glass that you'd never suspect, actually.

One of the specific comments Sony made during the Bloggers' Day event last year was that they were strengthening the display's backplane prior to launch -- this suggests that they thought it was fragile enough to need reinforcement.

[DrMoze]

Originally Posted by NatCh

The front of the panel is not on the Sony (though the iLiad's is), but the back surface may well be, and we don't really know that the front isn't just plastic laminated glass. Lots of things are made of glass that you'd never suspect, actually.

One of the specific comments Sony made during the Bloggers' Day event last year was that they were strengthening the display's backplane prior to launch -- this suggests that they thought it was fragile enough to need reinforcement.

Granted I don't have the complete, specific display specs for Sony's Reader. But everything I've read regarding the e-ink displays has indicated that it is not based on a glass panel, but on plastic. In fact, many e-ink displays (although apparently not Sony's) are quite flexible.

If anyone has different information, please post/link to it (as I am also generally interested in the display technology itself). But I have seen nothing to suggest that the Sony display is made of glass. And my sense from using it is that it is not. (It would have to be very thin glass, which would be extremely fragile for a display of that size. Just removing and replacing the cover would inevitably lead to cracking of a glass display imo.)

[NatCh]

The only hard evidence I've seen that the Sony's display has glass elements is the photos of ones whose screens have been damaged by physical trauma -- they look like broken glass, not broken plastic.

The other displays we've seen that are flexible and very definitely plastic aren't technically e-ink -- they're other forms of electrophoretic displays that are made with technology other than the approach that e-ink pioneered (with the exception of some of Phillips' efforts). They are also, every single one of them, not yet commercially viable products, so I don't give their existence much weight in the current discussion.

[DrMoze]

Well, I *refuse* to break the screen on my Reader just to settle this question of glass or no glass!

[NatCh]

Originally Posted by DrMoze

Well, I *refuse* to break the screen on my Reader just to settle this question of glass or no glass!

Spoilsport.

[macastronomer]

I had a nice long detailed message written but my login timed out and I lost it all... so here goes a quick recap and then off to work...

Sony will RMA this unit, but due to supply constraints and also due to their inability to provide an RMA when they don't have one in stock—I still have it. I unboxed it and took this photo:

http://homepage.mac.com/deal/reader_crack.jpg

The outside plastic is uncracked and invisible in this image. The crack is well beneath the surface.

Notice that how far in the corner it is.

Try this experiment. Get a thin rectangular box (like a puzzle box). The only way you could stress something within the box would be to twist the hole box. That would stress the center (not to mention cause damage to the outside box). Now imagine trying to damage just the corner of something inside that puzzle box. There's no way you could do it without damaging the box. This is common sense.

I wish I could take a better photo of this, as the internal crack is incredibly thin. I can't imagine plastic being this thin and glass would have to be tempered (making it stronger but brittle).

I'm reassured that this thing can take normal use by individuals here but I still don't trust taking this thing out of my house—definitely won't be using it out of the house has I had intended.

Now... Copy, then preview, then send

[HarryT]

Excuse my ignorance, but what does "RMA" mean?

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by HarryT

Excuse my ignorance, but what does "RMA" mean?

RMA = Return Merchandise Authorization

It's some code they assign to your return so they can keep track of it. Most companies these days require you to have such before you can send something in for warranty repair.

[MikeF74]

Originally Posted by HarryT

Excuse my ignorance, but what does "RMA" mean?

RMA = Return Merchandise Authorization

Almost every large company in the US will require such a number on the packaging or they will flat out refuse delivery of a shipment.

[HarryT]

Thanks!

[DrMoze]

Originally Posted by macastronomer

I had a nice long detailed message written but my login timed out and I lost it all... so here goes a quick recap and then off to work...

Sony will RMA this unit, but due to supply constraints and also due to their inability to provide an RMA when they don't have one in stock—I still have it. I unboxed it and took this photo:

http://homepage.mac.com/deal/reader_crack.jpg

The outside plastic is uncracked and invisible in this image. The crack is well beneath the surface.

Notice that how far in the corner it is.

Try this experiment. Get a thin rectangular box (like a puzzle box). The only way you could stress something within the box would be to twist the hole box. That would stress the center (not to mention cause damage to the outside box). Now imagine trying to damage just the corner of something inside that puzzle box. There's no way you could do it without damaging the box. This is common sense.

I wish I could take a better photo of this, as the internal crack is incredibly thin. I can't imagine plastic being this thin and glass would have to be tempered (making it stronger but brittle).

I'm reassured that this thing can take normal use by individuals here but I still don't trust taking this thing out of my house—definitely won't be using it out of the house has I had intended.

Now... Copy, then preview, then send

I still don't see that as proof of there being glass inside the display. First of all, the display is rather thin overall. And given that the outer surface has to be fairly thick to withstand contact, the back surface of the display (which appears to have cracked in your photo) is probably rather thin. This can work because of the stiffer/thicker top surface of the display and the mounting within a rigid frame. In fact, a back plate that was glass would have to be very thin, and even more fragile than plastic.

Also, the crack could easily result from a blunt force applied to the corner of the Reader. The frame is not perfectly rigid, so even a twist on the corner could be enough to crack the rear of the display.

Given that the display is thin to begin with, that any e-ink display I've read about is made of plastic (so that glass is certainly not needed nor particularly beneficial), and that a very thin plate of glass would be extremely fragile compared to plastic, why do many folks continue to insist that the display is made of glass? From a design point of view, I would *avoid* glass unless it were necessary, for both durability and cost reasons. It makes no sense to put a large, thin glass plate into a portable device with a display that large, and the display doesn't require glass. And yes, a thin plastic plate will also crack if the right (or wrong!) type of force is applied to it.