New Sony Reader coming? - Page 3

yvanleterrible · 09-07-2007, 11:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UncleDuke

what's to improve? i like my sony just the way it is.

That's the spirit! I still use my trusty old B\W Powerbook because it does what I need it too. If I need something else to be done I use an other tool.

LaughingVulcan · 09-07-2007, 06:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TadW

Heh, I know of at least one person who is still found of his Newton

I also know someone who, even though it just sties unused on the shelf, misses and loves his Newton.

flamaest · 09-08-2007, 12:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LaughingVulcan

I also know someone who, even though it just sties unused on the shelf, misses and loves his Newton.

Yes, I do this with many toys. I just like having them.. Don't know why..

The flesh is weak..

The Sony reader, however, I truly use.. might be the first toy I actually use with frequency..

F.

nerys · 09-09-2007, 12:01 PM

The sony reader has many flaws that should be fixed and some things that just should be fixed but so far its the "closest" to perfect reader out there.

3 things would make the reader "just about perfect" to me

1 - Change the screen "just" enough to permit full 8.5x11 PDF viawability. I do not think the screens needs to be bigger I think adding colors would be enough. I have a 7inch screen 800x600 tablet computer and I can read PDF's just fine on it. So its not the size of the screen the only other thing different is color depth.

2 - Allow straight up folder access to the content. IE I make a books folder on my memory card and it "looks" for and loads this book folder. No database just "show me" whats in that folder whether it be more folders or files. That simple. This would allow me to put HUNDREDS of books on a memory card if I want and still be easily accessible WITHOUT any alteration otherwise to the hardware/software interface.

3 - Replace the Lithoum Ion battery with a pair of AAA cells. DO NOT make the battery cover an END CAP (easily damaged hard to fix) make it part of the spine that pops off this way even I break of lose the battery cover the unit continues to function.

While it would be nice I could even live without #1 just give me #2 and #3 and I will be about as happy as can be.

Other suggestions? MORE file format support but they have the basis covered with pdf rtf and txt. Pretty much everything if its not already one of those can easily be MADE into one of those.

It really is pretty close to perfect. $200 would be a nice price point with $150 specials every now and then.

If they wanted to make a bigger model a 10inch screen would be nice. (then even large pdf's might be viewable at 4shades of grey) BUT this could not REPLACE the smaller unit so much as compliment it.

I would not mind having 2 units. One for my larger format stuff and one like the current reader for my smaller format stuff.

THOUGH a 7" color screen would do BOTH jobs quite well but then you lose the whole point of Eink (anywhere readable and low power consumption)

Guess we will have to wait for color eink :-)

Either way. Folder access and AAA usage would make the reader just about perfect as it is. OH and change that "snap" ring on the back to a twist lock ring.

Chris Taylor
http://ww.nerys.com/

Bob Russell · 09-09-2007, 12:18 PM

Why would you want AAA batteries Chris?
Unless you plan to be away from A/C for months at a time, I can't see what the advantages is, and AAA batteries would be an expensive pain in the neck and bulky as well.

But I sure do agree with your thoughts on PDF being very important. Clearly it can do better even with the existing screen (PDFRasterfarian and PDFRead have proven that). It would be very interesting to know what the "perfect" screen of various sizes can do with PDFs.

HarryT · 09-09-2007, 01:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bob Russell

Why would you want AAA batteries Chris?
Unless you plan to be away from A/C for months at a time, I can't see what the advantages is, and AAA batteries would be an expensive pain in the neck and bulky as well.

I agree with you. Given the Sony's excellent battery life, what on Earth would be the point of taking a retrograde step to using AAA cells? It would cut the battery life to a fraction of what it is now for what possible benefit?

Quote:

But I sure do agree with your thoughts on PDF being very important. Clearly it can do better even with the existing screen (PDFRasterfarian and PDFRead have proven that). It would be very interesting to know what the "perfect" screen of various sizes can do with PDFs.

I think personally that the 8" screen of the iLiad is pretty much the right compromise between size and portability. Going from 6" to 8" may not sound like much, but it makes a tremendous different in "readability".

JSWolf · 09-09-2007, 03:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HarryT

I agree with you. Given the Sony's excellent battery life, what on Earth would be the point of taking a retrograde step to using AAA cells? It would cut the battery life to a fraction of what it is now for what possible benefit?

Two benefits that I see... user replaceable batteries and if you forgot to charge the reader you could just swap in fresh batteries.

Being able to purchase a new battery and replace it yourself would be a very nice idea.

athlonkmf · 09-09-2007, 04:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JSWolf

Two benefits that I see... user replaceable batteries and if you forgot to charge the reader you could just swap in fresh batteries.

Being able to purchase a new battery and replace it yourself would be a very nice idea.

You foroget the bulk that AAA-batteries add to a device. Especially the holder for it.

Instead of these kind of batteries, it's more convenient to have the USB charge no matter if the driver is installed or not. You can charge that almost everywhere with a computer then.

RWood · 09-09-2007, 04:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flamaest

... The Sony reader, however, I truly use.. might be the first toy I actually use with frequency.

When I was a kid we moved a lot (13 schools by the end of high school) so anything that wasn't used a lot didn't make the next move. (This included things like last year's baseball cards but never books.)

For most electronics this practice still holds true even though we have been in this house now for 17 years. (The longest I have been in one place in my life.)

The Reader is used almost everyday. It is a rare day when it is not used. It goes with me on business trips and when I am with my wife on her shopping trips. My life is far richer because of the Reader.

Stingo · 09-09-2007, 05:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TadW

Heh, I know of at least one person who is still found of his Newton

I've known the Newton. I've used the Newton. And this, sir, is no Newton.

[to paraphrase Lloyd Benson]

Stingo · 09-09-2007, 05:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UncleDuke

what's to improve? i like my sony just the way it is.

Oh f'God's sake.

I'm sure that many a farmer said that about the horse and plow before they turned hoofy to glue and bought a John Deere. Wait till you see a better contrast screen, folder capability and more formats supported and see if you don't trample the other forum members to get one at the store.

Stingo · 09-09-2007, 05:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RWood

The Reader is used almost everyday. It is a rare day when it is not used. It goes with me on business trips and when I am with my wife on her shopping trips. My life is far richer because of the Reader.

As much as I dislike the design limitations in the reader and as much as I am waiting for a worthy replacement, I could not agree with your more. I carry it with me everywhere and its use has been a real pleasure. I love my little annoying, third rate, first generation piece of cr_p reader.

JSWolf · 09-09-2007, 05:38 PM

I don't think the Cybook Gen3 is a worthy replacement for the Sony. I also don't think the iRex iLiad is either.

What I think would be a worthy replacement is one that has a Vizplex (16-shade) screen at 9" (hi-res) with the iLiad resolution, supports ALL DRM formats and non-DRM formats, costs $300 at most and just setup to read books. Not some do it all device. There can be a second version of this device that's setup for doing a lot more. And for the do it all version, allow a mouse and a kyboard to be plugged in as well as the touch screen.

nerys · 09-09-2007, 08:04 PM

Well I have oodles of reasons for wanting AAA usage for the same reason I waited YEARS to get my close to perfect GPS (large color screen SD card waterproof and MOST importantly AA batteries)

First it would not be hard for them to use 2 AAA Nimhs and NO it would not be much bigger than it is now (go put a AAA next to your reader spine)

Here is what is going to happen. in 4-5 years its going to get harder and harder to keep a charge in that reader battery.

What do you do? you can not likely replace it and because of the readers diminutive dimensions its going to be VERY hard to get too and VERY specialized possibly even an oddball shape.

Then good luck finding a compatible replacement. UNLIKE the ipod which sells ZILLIONS so there is a market for battery replacement and more importantly PRODUCTION (more on that in a minute) I just bought a battery for my ipod for $12 shipped. Well unlike the IPOD the sony reader is NOT zillion selling popular. there will be no aftermarket batteries.

EVEN IF you can get OEM original stock (not likely since again its INTEGRATED not user replaceable.

Remember I said more on that later? well Lithium Batteries are "self nuking" ie they have a limited lifespan FROM INCEPTION till they die even if they are left in the shrink wrap and NEVER used.

The smaller the battery the more finicky and SHORTER this lifespan is.

NOW something like this reader with an "open" format support has no "real" lifespan. it will work as good today and still work as good 5 years from now and 20 years from now. Paper is Paper. no bulbs to burn out as long as I care for it the ONLY thing keeping it from lasting 20+ years is that god damned battery.

EVEN REPALCEABLE lithiums are useless to me as Well consider my DVD player. Once this model is "poof" gone they are going to STOP making batteries for it (they are hard enough to get when they ARE making them) eventually all the batteries made will be BAD and no NEW ONES will be made. same problem.

AA and AAA however are pretty much forever. They are NOT going away within our lifespans.

For Super High drain OFTEN REPLACED devices like PDA's and Cell Phones OK fine Lithium makes perfect sense.

Even laptops where other chemistries just will not provide enough juice its livable and again laptops are replaced relatively often.

Something like say a GPS though. It will work JUST FINE 20 even 30 years from now IF I CAN PROVIDE POWER for it. I am still using my original serial puck GPS that I bought well over 12 years ago. It works "just fine" (you think there going to replace billions of dollars in satellites just like that?? hell no :-)

Devices like GPS and Readers like this have NO effective end of life. the Limiting factor is BATTERIES.

I would rather have my reader be 2mm thicker (if that) than have a frelling paper weight in a few years.

My Zodiac (PDA) is only 4 years old and I am already having trouble finding replacement batteries for it. (this pda was an exception ie oddly enough NO ONE has made even a remotely EQUAL PDA since the zodiac. EVERY offer currently available is a decidedly nasty downgrade to the zodiac so I will try to keep mine alive)

My original digital camera. QV-10A (goo look up how old that is) and even my Original Apple Quicktake. Guess what? as useless as they are resolution wise the buggers STILL work cause they use good old AA batteries.

They make 1200mah AAA nimhs now. but with something like the reader I would not bother. AAA alkalines have about 5-6 TIMES the mah capacity of the Lithium in our readers. you MIGHT have the change the batteries ONCE a year especially if someone can hack it to remove the power drain during long term storage. figure 4 AAA's PER YEAR worse case if your like me and ONLY us it for books.

Yeah I think I can live with that. It would not have been "that" hard for sony to design it so it "recharges" nimh batteries so you retain the rechargeability you have now.

I could even see a small solar panel on the back of the "leather case" flush inside the case. so it trickle charges the batteries even with indoor lighting when not in use. These things use so little power you might NEVER have to plug it in at all.

Now some may say wait a minute what do you mean Alkalines have more power than Lithium. Oh yeah. WAY more power. Lithium PALES in comparison to Alkaline in MAH. but it has a problem. it can not handle LOADS. as soon as the amp load goes up the VOLTS go down.

All gadgets have a MINIMUM voltage at which they will run. Lets say the readers is 3.2v (out my butt just a number for discussion sake) if I had a battery brand new fully charged the SIZE OF THIS PLANET it would mean nothing to this reader if it was a 3.1 volt battery :-) see what I mean.

Alkalines loose voltage under load. Lithiums loose VERY LITTLE voltage IE they can maintain there voltage under load (so can nimhs)

SO while Alkalines have amazing capacity they are useless in high load applications They drop below the minimum usable voltage sometimes even with 80+ % of there capacity still in the cells!!. Well the ereader is an extremely LOW load application. it sips power. IDEAL for alkalines.

Thats why you NEVER throw away alkalines from a digital camera. They are usually quite good still they can just no longer maintain the minimum voltage the camera demands under the amp load it uses.

stick them in your remote controls they will go for months or years still :-)

My minidisc was similar. With a Nimh it would go about 18-20 hours of playback (single AA) with an alkaline I was pushing 50+ hours of playback. the Minidisc drew SO little power that it could take advantage of all that extra capacity the alkaline had.

Plus with Today's nimhs. you can buy 15 minute rechargeables. IE I can go from dead to full in under 15 minutes :-) hows that for recharge time :-)

I got a big battery grip for my coolpix 5000 digital cameara. holds 6 AA cells in place of the original 1amp lithium battery. Well nimhs are 2500mah and there is 6 (it only needs 2.3 voltage wise) so thats nearly 7amps of power !!

I can run the ENTIRE DAY without changing batteries where before I had to bring 3 or 4 original lithium packs (now granted in this case it made the camera much bigger but it was also a good thing. Easier to hold and use :-)

It also means my camera's lifespan is NOT limited by the willingness of the manufacturers to produce the special batteries it takes.

TRUST ME on some devices Lithium Ion batteries are definately a DOWNFALL a design FLAW not a design bonus.

Sadly they did not realize this when they went from the libre (AAA power) to the reader (lithium) I was really hoping they were going to keep the AAA power source.

I just KNOW 2 years from now I am going to be RIPPING this reader apart HOPING I do not ruin it and HOPING I can replace the danged battery with something close to what was in there. :-(

I tend to keep my gadgets till they are literally no longer usable.

Chris Taylor
http://www.nerys.com/

Bob Russell · 09-09-2007, 08:26 PM

Good point.. the Reader is nice enough, and we have so much great content, that it would be nice to be able to use it "forever". Even if just for the nostalgic fun of it. AAA batteries would help that greatly. (But not enough to make me want to give up the existing design of rechargeable battery.) I just plan to only use it while plugged in once the battery goes dead and replacements are either unavailable or too expensive.

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09-09-2007, 12:01 PM	#34
nerys Addict Posts: 243 Karma: 48 Join Date: Dec 2006 Device: PRS 500 - REB 1200	The sony reader has many flaws that should be fixed and some things that just should be fixed but so far its the "closest" to perfect reader out there. 3 things would make the reader "just about perfect" to me 1 - Change the screen "just" enough to permit full 8.5x11 PDF viawability. I do not think the screens needs to be bigger I think adding colors would be enough. I have a 7inch screen 800x600 tablet computer and I can read PDF's just fine on it. So its not the size of the screen the only other thing different is color depth. 2 - Allow straight up folder access to the content. IE I make a books folder on my memory card and it "looks" for and loads this book folder. No database just "show me" whats in that folder whether it be more folders or files. That simple. This would allow me to put HUNDREDS of books on a memory card if I want and still be easily accessible WITHOUT any alteration otherwise to the hardware/software interface. 3 - Replace the Lithoum Ion battery with a pair of AAA cells. DO NOT make the battery cover an END CAP (easily damaged hard to fix) make it part of the spine that pops off this way even I break of lose the battery cover the unit continues to function. While it would be nice I could even live without #1 just give me #2 and #3 and I will be about as happy as can be. Other suggestions? MORE file format support but they have the basis covered with pdf rtf and txt. Pretty much everything if its not already one of those can easily be MADE into one of those. It really is pretty close to perfect. $200 would be a nice price point with $150 specials every now and then. If they wanted to make a bigger model a 10inch screen would be nice. (then even large pdf's might be viewable at 4shades of grey) BUT this could not REPLACE the smaller unit so much as compliment it. I would not mind having 2 units. One for my larger format stuff and one like the current reader for my smaller format stuff. THOUGH a 7" color screen would do BOTH jobs quite well but then you lose the whole point of Eink (anywhere readable and low power consumption) Guess we will have to wait for color eink :-) Either way. Folder access and AAA usage would make the reader just about perfect as it is. OH and change that "snap" ring on the back to a twist lock ring. Chris Taylor http://ww.nerys.com/

09-09-2007, 12:18 PM	#35
Bob Russell Recovering Gadget Addict Posts: 5,381 Karma: 676161 Join Date: May 2004 Location: Pittsburgh, PA Device: iPad	Why would you want AAA batteries Chris? Unless you plan to be away from A/C for months at a time, I can't see what the advantages is, and AAA batteries would be an expensive pain in the neck and bulky as well. But I sure do agree with your thoughts on PDF being very important. Clearly it can do better even with the existing screen (PDFRasterfarian and PDFRead have proven that). It would be very interesting to know what the "perfect" screen of various sizes can do with PDFs.

09-09-2007, 05:38 PM	#43
JSWolf Resident Curmudgeon Posts: 79,796 Karma: 146391129 Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Roslindale, Massachusetts Device: Kobo Libra 2, Kobo Aura H2O, PRS-650, PRS-T1, nook STR, PW3	I don't think the Cybook Gen3 is a worthy replacement for the Sony. I also don't think the iRex iLiad is either. What I think would be a worthy replacement is one that has a Vizplex (16-shade) screen at 9" (hi-res) with the iLiad resolution, supports ALL DRM formats and non-DRM formats, costs $300 at most and just setup to read books. Not some do it all device. There can be a second version of this device that's setup for doing a lot more. And for the do it all version, allow a mouse and a kyboard to be plugged in as well as the touch screen.

09-09-2007, 08:04 PM	#44
nerys Addict Posts: 243 Karma: 48 Join Date: Dec 2006 Device: PRS 500 - REB 1200	Well I have oodles of reasons for wanting AAA usage for the same reason I waited YEARS to get my close to perfect GPS (large color screen SD card waterproof and MOST importantly AA batteries) First it would not be hard for them to use 2 AAA Nimhs and NO it would not be much bigger than it is now (go put a AAA next to your reader spine) Here is what is going to happen. in 4-5 years its going to get harder and harder to keep a charge in that reader battery. What do you do? you can not likely replace it and because of the readers diminutive dimensions its going to be VERY hard to get too and VERY specialized possibly even an oddball shape. Then good luck finding a compatible replacement. UNLIKE the ipod which sells ZILLIONS so there is a market for battery replacement and more importantly PRODUCTION (more on that in a minute) I just bought a battery for my ipod for $12 shipped. Well unlike the IPOD the sony reader is NOT zillion selling popular. there will be no aftermarket batteries. EVEN IF you can get OEM original stock (not likely since again its INTEGRATED not user replaceable. Remember I said more on that later? well Lithium Batteries are "self nuking" ie they have a limited lifespan FROM INCEPTION till they die even if they are left in the shrink wrap and NEVER used. The smaller the battery the more finicky and SHORTER this lifespan is. NOW something like this reader with an "open" format support has no "real" lifespan. it will work as good today and still work as good 5 years from now and 20 years from now. Paper is Paper. no bulbs to burn out as long as I care for it the ONLY thing keeping it from lasting 20+ years is that god damned battery. EVEN REPALCEABLE lithiums are useless to me as Well consider my DVD player. Once this model is "poof" gone they are going to STOP making batteries for it (they are hard enough to get when they ARE making them) eventually all the batteries made will be BAD and no NEW ONES will be made. same problem. AA and AAA however are pretty much forever. They are NOT going away within our lifespans. For Super High drain OFTEN REPLACED devices like PDA's and Cell Phones OK fine Lithium makes perfect sense. Even laptops where other chemistries just will not provide enough juice its livable and again laptops are replaced relatively often. Something like say a GPS though. It will work JUST FINE 20 even 30 years from now IF I CAN PROVIDE POWER for it. I am still using my original serial puck GPS that I bought well over 12 years ago. It works "just fine" (you think there going to replace billions of dollars in satellites just like that?? hell no :-) Devices like GPS and Readers like this have NO effective end of life. the Limiting factor is BATTERIES. I would rather have my reader be 2mm thicker (if that) than have a frelling paper weight in a few years. My Zodiac (PDA) is only 4 years old and I am already having trouble finding replacement batteries for it. (this pda was an exception ie oddly enough NO ONE has made even a remotely EQUAL PDA since the zodiac. EVERY offer currently available is a decidedly nasty downgrade to the zodiac so I will try to keep mine alive) My original digital camera. QV-10A (goo look up how old that is) and even my Original Apple Quicktake. Guess what? as useless as they are resolution wise the buggers STILL work cause they use good old AA batteries. They make 1200mah AAA nimhs now. but with something like the reader I would not bother. AAA alkalines have about 5-6 TIMES the mah capacity of the Lithium in our readers. you MIGHT have the change the batteries ONCE a year especially if someone can hack it to remove the power drain during long term storage. figure 4 AAA's PER YEAR worse case if your like me and ONLY us it for books. Yeah I think I can live with that. It would not have been "that" hard for sony to design it so it "recharges" nimh batteries so you retain the rechargeability you have now. I could even see a small solar panel on the back of the "leather case" flush inside the case. so it trickle charges the batteries even with indoor lighting when not in use. These things use so little power you might NEVER have to plug it in at all. Now some may say wait a minute what do you mean Alkalines have more power than Lithium. Oh yeah. WAY more power. Lithium PALES in comparison to Alkaline in MAH. but it has a problem. it can not handle LOADS. as soon as the amp load goes up the VOLTS go down. All gadgets have a MINIMUM voltage at which they will run. Lets say the readers is 3.2v (out my butt just a number for discussion sake) if I had a battery brand new fully charged the SIZE OF THIS PLANET it would mean nothing to this reader if it was a 3.1 volt battery :-) see what I mean. Alkalines loose voltage under load. Lithiums loose VERY LITTLE voltage IE they can maintain there voltage under load (so can nimhs) SO while Alkalines have amazing capacity they are useless in high load applications They drop below the minimum usable voltage sometimes even with 80+ % of there capacity still in the cells!!. Well the ereader is an extremely LOW load application. it sips power. IDEAL for alkalines. Thats why you NEVER throw away alkalines from a digital camera. They are usually quite good still they can just no longer maintain the minimum voltage the camera demands under the amp load it uses. stick them in your remote controls they will go for months or years still :-) My minidisc was similar. With a Nimh it would go about 18-20 hours of playback (single AA) with an alkaline I was pushing 50+ hours of playback. the Minidisc drew SO little power that it could take advantage of all that extra capacity the alkaline had. Plus with Today's nimhs. you can buy 15 minute rechargeables. IE I can go from dead to full in under 15 minutes :-) hows that for recharge time :-) I got a big battery grip for my coolpix 5000 digital cameara. holds 6 AA cells in place of the original 1amp lithium battery. Well nimhs are 2500mah and there is 6 (it only needs 2.3 voltage wise) so thats nearly 7amps of power !! I can run the ENTIRE DAY without changing batteries where before I had to bring 3 or 4 original lithium packs (now granted in this case it made the camera much bigger but it was also a good thing. Easier to hold and use :-) It also means my camera's lifespan is NOT limited by the willingness of the manufacturers to produce the special batteries it takes. TRUST ME on some devices Lithium Ion batteries are definately a DOWNFALL a design FLAW not a design bonus. Sadly they did not realize this when they went from the libre (AAA power) to the reader (lithium) I was really hoping they were going to keep the AAA power source. I just KNOW 2 years from now I am going to be RIPPING this reader apart HOPING I do not ruin it and HOPING I can replace the danged battery with something close to what was in there. :-( I tend to keep my gadgets till they are literally no longer usable. Chris Taylor http://www.nerys.com/

09-09-2007, 08:26 PM	#45
Bob Russell Recovering Gadget Addict Posts: 5,381 Karma: 676161 Join Date: May 2004 Location: Pittsburgh, PA Device: iPad	Good point.. the Reader is nice enough, and we have so much great content, that it would be nice to be able to use it "forever". Even if just for the nostalgic fun of it. AAA batteries would help that greatly. (But not enough to make me want to give up the existing design of rechargeable battery.) I just plan to only use it while plugged in once the battery goes dead and replacements are either unavailable or too expensive.

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